It's not the losses that are troubling it is the standard of performance, tactics employed and recruitment policy.

We play as if we have a team full of monsters in the pack despite being very lightweight. Our halves run from touch line to touch line offering no go forward at all. The basic skills of the players are declining in front of our eyes.

Our recruitment strategy is deeply flawed and short sighted.

It is all well and good saying the players will run through walls for him, but if they are not prepared by him with the right tools then effort is pointless as it will not lead to good performance.

In relation to the halves in my opinion Smith has now used up his previous seasons form justification for selection.

Next game I would love to see Williams at 7 and Rocky at 6.

Williams and Smith doesn't work, I don't believe it ever will as they are too similar in their style.

It's a really strange situation.

I can see valid points from both sides of the camp.

1st two or three sets against Leeds, I'm pretty sure our props didn't make one carry. They just don't seem involved enough and we rely too much on the wings and centres.

Our passing and last tackle options when under pressure isn't great.

However, it's the mistakes that are killing us. Two kick offs - possession handed straight to Leeds. Soft pens and poor handling.

Cut those out and even with the weaknesses in the side we become far more competitive.

We're just putting ourselves under too much pressure to judge the quality of the team properly.

How much is basil skills training, how much is lack of application by the players, how much is inexperience especially under pressure? Difficult to say.

Smith isn't showing the leadership needed at this point, but I'm not sure the answer is replacing him with Hampshire.

What I do believe is that those people who criticise Wane's coaching as just bawling atbthe players are wide off the mark. He pays lots of attention to detail, one on one coaching, player skills, etc. he's not an old style shout atbthe players type of coach.

We made good breaks and both wings looked dangerous. Logan had one of his best games. If the ref had played on with the free play following Bowens pass from the floor, the complexion of the game changes.

My gut feel is that patience and small changes are required and we will be competitive again. Throwing everything out is not the way to go at this stage.

Attacking Smith is silly.

Right from the very beginning and up until the end - Smith has and will [uALWAYS[/u be a "big pack" scrum half. Put him amongst physical, yardage-making ball-carriers and he'll gladly marshal them up and down the **centre** of the pitch.

For the life of me I can't understand why you bought a forward's scrum half only to then decide that forwards are redundant. Smith's short-passing game isn't suited to the channels (not least because he doesn't spin a fast, flat pass).

Agree but I would go a little further some players need to be dropped to give them a kick up the backside as they are clearly not performing.Bowen and McIlorum being two prime examples and both are replaceable from within the squad without too much disruption. Logan did well enough for me last night to deserve a starting position next time.

The biggest single change though is getting the players to get the basics right - too many stupid mistakes are draining the energy and confidence from the team- inviting too much pressure and teams like Leeds will always capitalise on such errors. When Wigan were at their best over the last season or two it is been because the basics were right - it is not exactly rocket science.

Like you I do not think wholesale changes are the way forward and especially I do not think it is all doom and gloom like some seem to think- one really good performance will make a world of difference, confidence for me is the single biggest issue at the moment, the players seem to be playing nervously at the moment.

I should add - given the stats turned in by your front row last night you'd better PRAY Wane keeps the kids out (for the sakes of their careers).

It's sheer lunacy to expect some rookie *playmaker* to save the club's skin when the very foundation of any playmaker's game is sinking quicker than a torpedoed battleship.

I think if the result goes against Wigan next week then the Good Friday game will be a powder keg and Wigan will come out all guns blazing. They need to match up to Saints physically and I'm not totally sure they can match them toe to toe on current form (2 weeks is a long time in RL though)

What are the odds on Mickey Mac seeing red?

Genuine question as he's lost it a couple of times V's Saints.

I thought it was a very even match, the difference being our lack of leadership and the ref jumping on everything we did (whilst letting you get away with an awful lot).

We're rudderless at the moment - I'd honestly ditch Smith as he adds nothing in this side. He's meant to be the senior player, but he's providing no organisation at all. Put Williams and Hampshire out there - let's see what they've got.

Williams and Smith are both 7's by trade arn't they?

I didn't. As has been pointed out, even our 8 point lead was very much against the run of play. Leeds didn't have to be brilliant to beat us last night; they were the better side throughout.

I agree , stick Smith behind the current Saints or even Dire pack and the sky clowns would be christening him as the new Long/Edwards and championing him for the England 7 shirt again.

I cannot say that I was over enamoured when we signed Sean Wane as coach after Maguire. However I have been pleasantly surprised by what he has accomplished under the constraints that he appears to have.

For many seasons now, we have lost quality players and not replaced them. We cannot keep replacing players by youngsters especially in the pack where forwards don't come into their prime till their late 20's age group. The almost unique Wigan town conveyor belt of talent that has been running since the 19th Century is 'drying up' as youngsters play computers rather than play rugby.

Even from early in the 20th Century when we signed players like Lance Todd from NZ we have always had out of townplayers. Wigan RLFC always had the best of talent - and we got them.

Many on this forum have indicated that 'we are doing it on the cheap' and it is true IMHO. I am not one of those who are now pointing the finger at Waney as I suspect that more questions need be asked of what constraints Mr.Lenegan has imposed on Sean Wane ?

It looks like Sean Wane is operating under a diminishing quality of player, and with diminishing resources, to bring in what we need.
Supporters who pay good money to see their team, expect honest hardworking endeavour and we are not at the moment getting that.
None of us want to see us fighting against what could well be a relegation battle later in the year. But the way the team are playing at the moment, that is a genuine fear.The product on the field is woeful and Leeds last night were no great shakes either, they should have murdered us.

The pack, particularly the front row needs strengthening immediately. The half back pairing needs sorting, and Smith offers almost nothing apart from the odd kick. Bowen ought to be dropped. Replacing Sam Tomkins with Matt Bowen now looks like a real disaster doesn't it?

Put Gelling into the second row, as he is wasted at centre and drop Farrell. The pack needs to be 'beefed- up' before the halves can get really sorted. To put 'Rocky' Hampshire into the halves against Saints without a 'culture change' in the pack, will not be a good thing at all. He would get hammered.

Supporters are not interested in Wigan RLFC's bank balance being, I hear, £1 million in the black.

Oh for a Graeme West !

You don't half post some tripe. When on earth did we or anyone else ever in the history of this sport come to the conclusion that forwards are redundant? We are missing SOL, Flower, Crosby and Sutton plus MM was shown up by Logan. I admit signings like Patrick are a mystery and playing too many runts is hurting us but they are all still forwards for gods sake.