FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE |
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| Quote: The Yellow Giraffe "Quite shocked at this. I thought territorially we battered you personally and said this on here after the game. In terms of metres made on the day we were over 400m more than you for example (despite you scoring from two long range breaks from Field and french too). We also made more carries and you made more tackles. So in terms of both possession and territory we were on top. You were forever finishing sets in your own half. We were camped in your half for the start of the game but I don't recall us being under the pump on our line for long spells.
What you do have though is that "X-factor" that we don't have. In Field and French you have players who can literally score from anywhere on the field and they've proven that time and again (including at Magic).
I think games between the two sides will follow similar patterns for the time being. We will get on top in the middle and win the field position battle and try and pick off our chances when they come. Whereas Wigan will almost accept they will get less field position but they'll know they can burn us from anywhere on the field.
It's a real contrasting battle of styles and it could go either way when we meet up again.'"
Just one question YG: I know it's 4 points for a try and 2 for a conversion but remind me how many points you get for most territory as I can't find reference to it anywhere.
At magic, you played your way, we played ours. Until we went down to 12 men you never lead the contest. Were we the better team? Well we didn't play at our best so I'll say possibly not but don't point to the things you do better as if they're the only things that determine a game. We were beating you for the vast majority of that match and I'd argue would have won the match had we not gone down to 12. Opinion, I grant you, but the fact you never lead despite all the points you got for your massive territorial advantage (sic) suggests that it's at the very least a reasonable opinion.
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| Quote: Stu M "I feel we would have won the Magic game anyway as we were piling the pressure on for the last 15 mins and you looked gassed. The breakaway try was scored down our left after Sironen went off with a head knock (you know the one that he milked, that one)
If Wigan are being held up as a better team due to winning the CC Final, then I can point out that you were less than 4 mins away from losing that one. Even if I gave you 70 mins out of 80 for the CC semi (which is ridiculous) we still come out as more dominant overall across all 3 games.
We did lead that game too. 2-0
you had us under pressure for the first 20 mins but couldnt score,you can give us anything you want,breakdown of play,injuries to all of your strike players,dominant minutes etc (all opinions of course) but it still stands we are having a more successful season so far what with us being the CC holders.
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Quote: LewCharnock "That's exactly what I am saying, Wigan were really poor, particularly in the first half. The amount of times they produced unforced errors and gave the initiative to Saints in the first half was astounding. But Saints ultimately did nothing with it.
What I mean by looking the better team is when we got into your half, we looked dangerous every set whereas Saints didn't look like scoring. What I would ask you is, how do you think it would have gone had Wigan had the amount of territory and possession that Saints had? I personally think game over by half time.
In big, one-off games territory and possession are usually split fairly even. I think myself and Wigan fans are optimistic that if we get a fair share of ball and complete sets in a big game, we have a great chance.
PS, YG it would be great if you could point me in the direction of the game stats, would love to look at these..'"
I answered this exact question the day after the game mate and said that had Wigan had the same possession and position we had, you would score more points. But my point is you didn't. https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3572
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Quote: LewCharnock "That's exactly what I am saying, Wigan were really poor, particularly in the first half. The amount of times they produced unforced errors and gave the initiative to Saints in the first half was astounding. But Saints ultimately did nothing with it.
What I mean by looking the better team is when we got into your half, we looked dangerous every set whereas Saints didn't look like scoring. What I would ask you is, how do you think it would have gone had Wigan had the amount of territory and possession that Saints had? I personally think game over by half time.
In big, one-off games territory and possession are usually split fairly even. I think myself and Wigan fans are optimistic that if we get a fair share of ball and complete sets in a big game, we have a great chance.
PS, YG it would be great if you could point me in the direction of the game stats, would love to look at these..'"
I answered this exact question the day after the game mate and said that had Wigan had the same possession and position we had, you would score more points. But my point is you didn't. https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/3572
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| Quote: Jason65 "I agree we have had a better season so far this must mean we are a better team so far,you won the first derby easily enough but you lost the first game game that really would mean anything then you won the last derby in the last seconds I would say we are better this season so far as you have agreed we are having a better season so far.'"
No. You have had a better season so far. You haven't been the better team so far. There is a difference. But this is one of those that could drag on so we can agree to disagree on it.
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| Quote: Stu M "I feel we would have won the Magic game anyway as we were piling the pressure on for the last 15 mins and you looked gassed. The breakaway try was scored down our left after Sironen went off with a head knock (you know the one that he milked, that one)
If Wigan are being held up as a better team due to winning the CC Final, then I can point out that you were less than 4 mins away from losing that one. Even if I gave you 70 mins out of 80 for the CC semi (which is ridiculous) we still come out as more dominant overall across all 3 games.
We did lead that game too. 2-0
If ever anything proved a point it's that last statement. All that advantage and yet the only points scored were from a penalty kick. Says it all really although I will admit you're technically right
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| Quote: Phuzzy "Just one question YGbut don't point to the things you do better as if they're the only things that determine a game. We were beating you for the vast majority of that match and I'd argue would have won the match had we not gone down to 12. Opinion, I grant you, but the fact you never lead despite all the points you got for your massive territorial advantage (sic) suggests that it's at the very least a reasonable opinion.'"
I was directly answering someone who mentioned possession and territory and said they thought Wigan were on top. I didn't mention points, so your sarcastic question is a bit needless really mate. So is that really annoying thing you do of putting words in my mouth. I never claimed that possession and territory determine a game. I actually was very complimentary about wigan and said they can hurt you from anywhere and it's a battle of contrasting styles. I literally never claimed or even insinuated that possession and territory is the be all and end all. You talk about having grown up discussion so let's do that
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| I just hope that you give us a chance the next time we play. Given that you have dominated the last two games we have played, all the strike you have and now Cooper to add to the pack, I'm hoping we can at least give you a game and make the scoreline respectable.
I'm off to lump on Wigan winnning the Grand Final. Seems like its a licence to print money.
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| I'll tell you one thing. There is no way in the world that Wigan nil Hudds going down to 12 men after 16 mins, 11 for the last 8 mins and losing a FB after 3 mins. Absolutely no chance. However because its us, its simply because "Huddersfield were toothless". No other team in SL could've done that, not a chance.
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| Quote: The Yellow Giraffe "No. You have had a better season so far. You haven't been the better team so far. There is a difference. But this is one of those that could drag on so we can agree to disagree on it.'"
We are having a better season so far but not the better team go figure,so yes we agree to disagree
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| Quote: Stu M "I'll tell you one thing. There is no way in the world that Wigan nil Hudds going down to 12 men after 16 mins, 11 for the last 8 mins and losing a FB after 3 mins. Absolutely no chance. However because its us, its simply because "Huddersfield were toothless". No other team in SL could've done that, not a chance.'"
But that is your opinion saying Wigan have no chance of emulating Saints against Hudds but we will never know.
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| Quote: The Yellow Giraffe "I was directly answering someone who mentioned possession and territory and said they thought Wigan were on top. I didn't mention points, so your sarcastic question is a bit needless really mate. You talk about having grown up discussion so let's do that
It was a bit sarcastic mate but I grow tired of Saints fans pointing to territory or yardage and saying it makes you the better team. It doesn't. It's one in game metric (albeit an important one) of which there are many equally important ones. I would say, for a team such as ourselves who can score from anywhere on the field, that it's not even the most important. Set completion is far more important to a team like ours.
Its like saying a boxer dominated the centre of the ring so is the better fighter despite landing fewer punches or getting knocked out. I'm not saying I wouldn't like us to close the advantage you currently have in this department...of course I would...but I equally want to make less errors than you or have more possession etc. They're all equally important.
As I said elsewhere; we play our way and you play yours. I don't think pointing to one teams particular strength and claiming it is the single most important factor in determining who is best is valid. As for a grown up discussion; show me a single post where a Saints fan doesn't use yardage or territory as the incontrovertible reason Saints are the better side and I'll apologise for my sarcasm.
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| Quote: Stu M "I'll tell you one thing. There is no way in the world that Wigan nil Hudds going down to 12 men after 16 mins, 11 for the last 8 mins and losing a FB after 3 mins. Absolutely no chance. However because its us, its simply because "Huddersfield were toothless". No other team in SL could've done that, not a chance.'"
Do you not even see the irony in this post Stu?
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| Quote: Phuzzy "It was a bit sarcastic mate but I grow tired of Saints fans pointing to territory or yardage and saying it makes you the better team. '"
I have never said, insinuated or implied that. I was pointing out Wigan hadn't got on top in those areas which is what another posted had said.
Quote: Phuzzy "As I said elsewhere; we play our way and you play yours. '"
I agree and have said the same myself in a complimentary fashion about Wigan.
Quote: Phuzzy " I don't think pointing to one teams particular strength and claiming it is the single most important factor in determining who is best is valid. '"
I agree, hence why I haven't done that.
Quote: Phuzzy " As for a grown up discussion; show me a single post where a Saints fan doesn't use yardage or territory as the incontrovertible reason Saints are the better side and I'll apologise for my sarcasm.'"
Literally me, all over this thread. I have said both teams have contrasting styles and when we meet again it could go either way.
I haven't said yardage and territory is the be all and end all, I haven't said it's the most important factor and I haven't said it makes us the better team. Literally read my posts this morning and after the Magic game and you will realise I have done none of the things you claim I have.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "Do you not even see the irony in this post Stu?'"
No not really. Go on educate me.
All I see is a complete and utter lack of respect for what we did last Friday. Even the neutral pundits were describing it as the performance of the season. French scores 7 and you beat Hull 60-0 and yet our performance is still being talked about more. Go figure.
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| Quote: The Yellow Giraffe "I have never said, insinuated or implied that. I was pointing out Wigan hadn't got on top in those areas which is what another posted had said.
I agree and have said the same myself in a complimentary fashion about Wigan.
I agree, hence why I haven't done that.
Literally me, all over this thread. I have said both teams have contrasting styles and when we meet again it could go either way.
I haven't said yardage and territory is the be all and end all, I haven't said it's the most important factor and I haven't said it makes us the better team. Literally read my posts this morning and after the Magic game and you will realise I have done none of the things you claim I have.'"
Mate, we must be living in some sort of alternate reality. You literally posted:
"Quite shocked at this. I thought territorially we battered you personally and said this on here after the game. In terms of metres made on the day we were over 400m more than you for example (despite you scoring from two long range breaks from Field and french too). We also made more carries and you made more tackles. So in terms of both possession and territory we were on top. You were forever finishing sets in your own half. We were camped in your half for the start of the game but I don't recall us being under the pump on our line for long spells."
If that is not focussing on how territory isn't the defining factor as to why you were the best, I don't know what is.
That said if you don't believe that to be the case despite posting it then fair enough.
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