Re. the bench, Shorrocks for Smithies, I'd find a space for Smith incase plan A isn't working and if Havard can get a game in before the semis he definitely gets in and Flower before Clubb.

Yeah one assumes the plan is for Smith to be our starting halfback next year so we really do need to keep him getting gametime. Lam may not be incentivised to do this though if he knows he's not going to be here.

Because it's true, We've seen it on a few occasions over the last 2 seasons, He get's injured, We start playing great rugby, He then comes back and we revert to type, stop being jealous because I'm the only one brave enough to mention it on this site

It’s an interesting battle the Shorrocks and Smithies one. I probably would say Shorrocks was adding a little more when he was in the side than what Smithies has done since he’s been back. I fully agree it would be lovely to have Havard back in and in that ideal world a bench of Havard, Flower, Smithies and Smith would be my preference. I’d just select Smithies ahead of Shorrocks simply on the basis of the aggression he brings and I really think he’ll be a big game player throughout his career. It’s a tight on that though.

Shorrocks has been impressive in his appearances this season. He's not a prop, but then again, neither is Smithies. And he strikes me as a bit more of a footballer than Smithies, if you know what I mean. Certainly both of them should be in contention.

Smithies looks like he's running in quicksand most of the time. His work rate is great but Shorrocks replicates that and is more explosive in his running.

Sorry, Smithies with his aggression and level of tackling is better at loose forward than Shorrocks irrespective of any running.

I still don’t see what Smithies does in a game other than tackle to warrant this “star player” tag. Dont get me wrong it’s a good trait to have but other than that I don’t see a great deal more, however he does have time on his side and hopefully he will develop his offload game and running lines etc as he matures.

I’d like to see Smithies given some minutes playing in the second row. He’s been brought in as an 18 year old last year and since has only ever played slap bang in the middle of the field. It’s a tough proposition that at such a young age and it’s not like he’s a monster physically. He’s played plenty of second row in the juniors and it would give him the chance to run wider at smaller men for a change. He’ll end up at loose forward in his career but there’s no reason why he has to be flogged there at the minute.

He’ll be a top player Smithies. It’s easy to forget how young he is and there’s been a bit of that second season syndrome about his performances. He’ll learn a lot from John Bateman next year when it comes to playing with controlled aggression. I think Bateman will get a few % out of lots of our guys.

Most of your first paragraph there could equally be applied to Shorrocks, though, NK. I hope we can keep them both. Did Smithies not mostly play 13 at Academy level? At any rate, that's a different story to playing 13 at senior level, as neither of them are that big.

(Checking, I see the club website has Smithies as 100 kg; I'm surprised he is that heavy)

I'd take those stats with a heavy pinch of salt. I'm 6'2 and taller than players they've listed as 6'4 plus.

I wouldn't have thought that Smithies was 13 kg heavier than Shorrocks, no. That's two stone in old money!

Fully agree. I think both should be getting minutes a little wider when possible and somebody more experienced like Isa should be doing the graft in the middle. I don’t think we’ve used Isa centrally enough (pretty much at all the last couple of seasons) in his time here. He rebuilt his career at Widnes playing at loose forward and whilst he’s not the biggest, he is as tough as teak. I’d also use Fridays option of Partington in front of the two younger lads as a starter.

Smithies played a bit of both from memory. More loose forward but plenty of second row as well. It’s been a tough learning curve to only play at loose forward in the first team. He’s done a great job in the main in fairness to him but I’d have a look at him in the second row as well now and again.