i guess i should qualify before i go searching, do any of the matches we won count?

Of course.

Fire away............

when he went off after first spell he was top tackler....doubt a first timer would do that.
i agree in attack tho, he was mainly a dummy runner, but it kept saints guessing

Exactly. Could argue Charnley would have scored more with Inglis as his centre by that logic.

For what it's worth this was my post after the Wire game...

"Beaten, bullied, out played.

Our attack seems highly predictable, seems to be the same movement every week, half/dummy runner to half/dummer runner to Sam linking up from the back causing a 3 v 2 overlap with Daz and Josh on his outside. From this we seem to get either Sam dummy and go, pass to Daz or cut out ball to Josh. (Of course this movement is evident on the other side of the pitch with George etc).
9/10 it works against lesser teams. its fast and with Sam's ability we score from it. But against a good coach it becomes transparent. Wire easily cancelled out our best attacking weapon (Sam) simply by having JM cut in and stop the moment when Sam is about to take on the ball. Regardless of such predictably there was no plan B.

In contrast when St George were coached by Wayne Bennett they perfected the moment whereas the defence had no idea who was going to run, who was going to be the dummy runner and who was going to finish with the ball.

They used Soward to break away, from here the defence would not know if he's going to take on the line or pass, with this he had a SR Ben Creagh alongside with Cooper and Morris as an attacking centre/winger partnership. To add another threat Boyd joined the line from FB. At this point any of the mentioned could be the ball carrier, anyone the dummy runner. When the 5 attack down the flank in a line the 3/4 of the opposition would be scared to death of what was going to come next.

We don't have such movement, we look predictable, basically cancel Sam and you've stopped our attack, with StG if Boyd was stopped one of the others would be still a threat.

I think we have the players to create something different, the drills need to be practised and coached, I barely see any other pattern, we play into the oppositions hands.

Warrington like to throw the 'first punch' hit us hard and keep on the pressure from the get-go, the opposition tire from tackle after tackle and become vulnerable and exposed, and of course when you're tired you are more likely to make mistakes. This happened, it's almost as if Wane fires up certain players so much they lose their heads, case in point Micky.

This season Micky has proven his ability as a top 9, however, at times, when fired up he seems more concerned with intensity and letting us all know how 'ard he is' rather than keeping a cool head. If he was a backrower it would be different, but as a 9 you must have composure and awareness, I for one have never ever seen Cam Smith lose his cool, today of all days, playing with just a single 9 he had to be so in-control, I feel he wasn't, (at one point he was rolling on the floor with Moz to show us how 'ard he is'.
This created such a negative impact, at times when we needed to generate momentum getting on a roll with the forwards we never did, Micky wasn't at the races. If he cooled down and became a 'game leader' rather that an enforcer we'd would have had more chance of winning the arm-wrestle.

The forwards were rattled, Wire brought an 'origin esque' attitude, a winning mentality which has been inspired by their coach and key on on field leaders, Morley showed his calibre and leadership which Hill followed with great effect. Westwood showed his winning desire and played for his life. Excellent mentality throughout.
In opposition to this who are actually our leaders? Lockers, love him, great player, but leader? Undecided. We have some excellent props but who's the enforcer/leader? If one of the props matched Morley maybe Micky wouldn't feel the need to enforce from 9. Eric for me was the best player, he brought it, pity Mossop didn't stand up, and I think it's about time Prescott was pushed to one side for other props, can't remember seeing a prop lose the ball so much on impact. Lima worked hard but he needs more support.
Hock is 'origin' in his approach but seems to have trouble raising intensity without losing his head, with this Wane panics and takes him off.

We don't seem mentally ready. Maybe Wane's I'll shout them down get angry until they play better approach isn't always the best way to deal with a beaten team. We almost seem nervous and afraid of Wire, we shouldn't be.

It's time for a plan B, more options in attack with a strong steel mentality which shows no fear, no backing down. Won't lose our heads or temperament but we'll tackle so hard they will be scared to take the line on."

anyone know if tommy is ok,he limped off last night.

St Helens game at Manchester Magic?

Now that would REALLY be worth winning!

Getting the Catalans is not the worst result of last night and to slate a team that played 75% plus of the game is being short sighted, I think last night could be the best way to motivate the team for the play offs. Players who had been slated really stood up last night, Mossop looked aggressive and the extra effort needed by the 12 men left on the pitch showed no shortage of desire. To expect an attack to work effectively with 12 men is harsh and when the missing man is the dummy half it compounds the effect on the attack. Extra defence also means less energy can be used in attack. I would be more worried if I was a Saints fan.

Yes. It would be far better for the future of the game to let you bankrupt yourself snapping up all available playing talent and buying hollow trophies for the next decade, with every other team in the league being turned into the Washington Generals wouldn't it? That would soon have SL booming and interest and cash pouring into the game at all levels... You lost your stadium and your history doing that last time, remember? If next time ever happens then what's left of the sport would die with you instead...

And we will all indeed be playing at the London level soon, but that has sod all to do with the cap - blame football and (to a lesser extent) the RU and NRL. The cab would do nothing but hasten the inevitable demise.

No, I don't remember us losing our history. You're going to have to give us all a good laugh telling us how that works.

I think you'll find Wigan recorded another profit for the past financial year ....... Saints I think was a £2m+ loss (on top of numerous other losses pre the Widnes move) ....... so don't worry about us going bankrupt.

Mind you, a pityful away following by the Saints fans on Friday night could well hit our cashflow. Maybe Saints lack the funds to repair the band wagon their fans like to ride