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| International Board Member | 3743 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Feb 2003 | 22 years | |
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| May 2025 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote Wigg'n="Wigg'n"What do you mean 'assets to rescue them'?'"
Not to rescue as such, more of a remortgage |
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| International Chairman | 11377 | St. Helens |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jan 2025 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
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Classic RG spin 
Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.
I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.
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Classic RG spin
Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.
I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.
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| Player Coach | 5193 | No
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| Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Aug 2024 | Mar 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"Classic RG spin
Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.
I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.'"
Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 11377 | St. Helens |
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| Sep 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jan 2025 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote post="post"Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.'"
Go on then, help me out with what this means? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 4722 | No
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| Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
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| Feb 2025 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote post="post"Wigan lost £650k and Saints lost £0.7m, I see what you did there, you are Alistair Campbell and I claim my £5.'"
but in that we got to the CC final and had the WCC at Wigan and won it. |
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| Player Coach | 17452 | Warrington Wolves |
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| Mar 2008 | 17 years | |
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| May 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
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Over the last couple of decades only 2 teams regularly made a profit. Leeds by some distance and Wire. Wigan often balanced the book and every other club have ran a loss.
As a sport we don't think we thank or recognise our investors and owners like Ken Davy etc enough.
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| Player Coach | 4722 | No
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| Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
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| Quote rubber duckie="rubber duckie"Over the last couple of decades only 2 teams regularly made a profit. Leeds by some distance and Wire. Wigan often balanced the book and every other club have ran a loss.
As a sport we don't think we thank or recognise our investors and owners like Ken Davy etc enough.'"
wire havent made a profit for a few years now. Mainly due to transfer fees though, Leeds do as its not just the rugby team its a collective |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 2185 | Wigan Warriors |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2024 | Jun 2022 | LINK |
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| Quote Pieman="Pieman"wire havent made a profit for a few years now. Mainly due to transfer fees though, Leeds do as its not just the rugby team its a collective'"
yep. Wolves lost 260k in 2016 and 70k in 2017 |
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| Player Coach | 5193 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Aug 2024 | Mar 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"Go on then, help me out with what this means?'"
More spin than Shane Warne. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 11377 | St. Helens |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
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Well clearly that was the thrust given the Campbell reference, but interested to understand the issue with the numbers you quoted and your view?
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| Player Coach | 5193 | No
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| Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Aug 2024 | Mar 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"Well clearly that was the thrust given the Campbell reference, but interested to understand the issue with the numbers you quoted and your view?'"
I was paraphrasing you, don’t act silly. |
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| International Chairman | 11377 | St. Helens |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"Classic RG spin
Here's another way of looking at it chap:
- The losses you quote for Saints include big depreciation charges (approx £500k p.a.) for a stadium that has been fully paid for whilst the club remains debt free;
- Early teething problems at the stadium (hospitality/catering etc subsequently taken in house, cladding-gate etc) led to chunky losses in early years, but after adjusting for depreciation, Saints made an opeprating profit in both 2015 and 2016 - we didn't make a final in either year. Wigan lost about £650k by the same measure in 2016 alone despite winning SL
- 2017 was a difficult one and a loss of c.£0.7m was made as lots of changes made and costs incurred (KC and some associated staff leaving mid-contract, connection lost between club and town) HOWEVER McManus has advised he expects us to be back in profit for 2018 without a final appearance. We will know soon enough as the accounts are due shortly. In 2017 Wigan lost £450k-ish despite winning the WCC and making (and profitably losing) the Challenge Cup Final.
- After recent conversion of shareholder loans to equity, Saints have a positive net asset position of £22m and no debt. Wigan are balance sheet insolvent with minimal assets, owe c.£1m to the Bank and c.£6m to Lenagan - hopefully neither of them ever need the money back.
I know you long banged the "it's better to rent than have assets" drum with respect to Saints, but let's have a bit of balance eh.'"
Saints just announced that the 2018 accounts show us back in profit (before depreciation) as McManus trailed. Hopefully the Wigan numbers improve materially too; accounts due next month.
The game needs all of our big clubs in rude health, here's hoping Wigan can stem the losses.
Next TV deal is a huge moment for the sport. |
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