We didn't get murdered in the 89 Final. (Although somebody did)!!

They have a point - just not sure what it is

I guess anytime the underdog wins the final (has that happened often?) the question comes up.

Whatever else, we must be the only team in history to have been written off before the season, during the whole season, barring an early season "blip", and right up to 1/2 time of the very last game of the season. Oh, and we did the double, bizarre..!!!!

I think that says an awful lot about the pundits, to be honest.

Didn't Stevo tip Saints to win everything at the start of the season.

What planet is he on?

Stevos predictions are always based on dummy half play
Saints will beat Wigan because of Roby,
Wire will beat Wigan, Higham and. Monaghan will tear Wigan apart, Wigan won't handle Lunt etc etc

Now i can't get "Stevo Bingo" out of my head!!

Shows how you can't necessary judge a team by the names on the team sheet.

I've recently watched the 2000 and 2001 grand finals again and some of the players we had then were superstars. Radlinski, Robinson, Renouf, Connolly, Dallas, Johns, Lam, Newton, Furner, Farrell, Betts played in one or both games.

Yet they lost to St Helens in the final having finished top of the table and lost 54 16 in the grand final qualifier at home. The next year they finish 2nd to Bradford on points difference lost a relatively close grand final qualifier and then got destroyed in the final by a bulls team who, at the time, had a reputation as big game bottlers.

Does anyone remember if there were any extenuating circumstances that led to scores like 16 54 and 37 6 in big games from a team that looks to be full of class. Were they over the hill or mercenaries who didn't care? Either way, I've seen people say they would batter the current team but on the evidence of their respective performances in big games it would be the other way around. They don't seem to have the spirit, physicality, desire, commitment or discipline that the current team have and which cant be seen on paper.

The 16-54 result was very bizarre. IIRC, Wigan just seemed to stop trying half way through. Everyone was mystified.

I seem to recall, though, that despite the plethora of apparent star names at Wigan around that time, there was still a feeling of decline. Crowds were down, people sated by success or simply not liking the new stadium. We weren't a shadow of the team we'd been five years earlier, Bradford and Saints above us in terms of pure quality (of those names you mention, Johns was a big disappointment and Betts was nothing like the force he'd been). We'd also started to lose players to RU - Robinson's departure stunned us, and we only hung onto Rads by the skin of our teeth. Latics had just got promoted and we were constantly hearing that Whelan was going to turf us out. Whelan was also on a sack-the-coach binge whenever we failed to win silverware.

The CC win in 2002 was a blip really. More telling were the Cup Final defeats - against Sheffield (!!!), Saints and Bradford. To lose four finals would have been unthinkable at Wigan a decade earlier. I reckon it was all downhill from around 1998 to our near-relegation season in 2007 (or whenever it was).

I checked Rads' book and he puts it down to Saints and Bradford simply being red hot, which is a bit of a cop out. What you describe seems to be the more likely cause. The club being on a downward slide with a constant turnover of coaches followed by experienced players.

If this years side is the worst on paper to win the double, the 2000, 2001 team must be one of the best on paper to win nothing.

That 2000 team that finished top should have strolled to the title. Some times it's just not your year (ask our Wolfs friends for further evidence ).

In 2000, we put 40+ on Saints away on the last game to finish top. Now even though the playoffs had been brought in, in 2000 it was still massive to finish top and teams were giving everything all season to do so.
Seem to remember some injury problems that year when it came to the GF.

Excellent posts

IMHO you can only truly judge this team once they have some history - yes we think of Saints 2006 as one of the best but how will Wigan's team appear looking back in, say, 4 years time?

Hopefully something like:

Wigan appear in their 3 Grand Final in 5 years with the best 3/4 line for years the Thornley/Gelling and Goulding/Charnley combinations cutting teams open. Their awesome front row of Flower/Crosby/Powell/Taylor is hard to stop and with Hampshire rotating with the returning veteran Tompkins?

Saints lost Graham to the NRL and I think he's been a massive loss for them, far greater than any effect players' departure from Wigan has been.