well thats where it always fails. because with every call a ref makes a % of people will always say its wrong.

we could go through all the calls that you or anyone else think are wrong, us as fans will always disagree.

fans always think they know better than the refs. but in truth we dont. we all think refs are $hite sometimes, but you have to win despite the ref. the job they do is very tough. ganson gave 21 pens in the leeds wakey game! it was shocking.

ian smith let the game run last night. how you can say ian smith helped your downfall when he didnt give leeds a pen until an hour into the game i will never know.

im totally flabbergasted by what some people see.

you would think wigan's tactics against leeds since noble came wernt to lay on, spoil the play, slow it down, kill the flow of a game. wigan bend the rules as much as they can like ever team in the league.

at worst smith was as good/bad for both teams. i thought you got away with murder at the play the ball all night. some wigans fans will think leeds did. thats life.

after having ganson for 2 out of 4 league games this year i was just happy to see a game flow

i think you have a short memory!! hanley, one of the greatest captains of all time not just for wigan but any where he played and one of my biggest rugby hero's, questioned everything and told the ref what to do in every game he played in. hanley quite simply refed the game.

its what good captains try and do in all sport. i just dont get blinkered views of our game and sport in general.

you have beef because you got a bit of a spanking and it hurts. if you want to blame anyone look no further than the blokes who pull on the shirt

We were 6-0 down before we touched the ball.
From then on we tried to play catch up and the ball went to ground.
From being stood behind the sticks I reckoned we completed two sets in the first 30 minutes. Do that at Leeds and you'll get hammered and we did. After 30 mins we were 22-0 down. There was never any coming back from that. Some bad decisions went against us but Ian Smith didn't lose us the game. If you thought the match & video ref were poor then email Stuart Cummings.
The positive I got from the game was that whatever happened out there didn't knock their spirit. They kept it going however bad it got.
I was more annoyed by the losses to Wakey & Cas when we were beaten but the team spirit was poor and there was nothing there from the players.
Friday at Leeds the team spirit looked very good, if they keep that going they'll be OK.

Check the statement in bold.

Surely you don't disagree that both so called knock-ons from Hock (one on your line where we should have had another set of six but instead you got the penalty, kicked a 40/20 and scored off the back of it !) were reefs? That's not opinion, that's the ref getting it wrong!

Surely you don't think the fact that, having penalised Riddell for 'not having both feet over the line' when defending our try line, we then go up field where, despite him repeatedly shouting 'both feet' at your players (so was watching for the offence) first McGuire, then Lee Smith didn't yet he chose not to penalise you? That's the ref getting it wrong!

Surely you don't think that, having called held, JJB carries on with the play which, by the rules of the game is a penalty Wigan, Smith decides to let him walk back to the point of the tackle and play the ball. That's not opinion, that's the ref getting it wrong!

I could go on...

Now I accept that other things can be a matter of opinion, the allowed/disallowed tries, forward passes etc. but Smith got too much wrong last night and, whichever way you look at it, altered the course of the game. I'm not saying he was to blame for the loss but it's a fair point to say it's unnacceptable.

I've just said in another post, Leeds third try was a forward pass and a knock on.

Kirke passes the ball forward, clearly shown by the 20 metre line, and the ball hits the ground before Donald picks it up, which by definition is a knock on.

The referee cannot go to the screen for a forward pass but he can for a knock on.

That was a very important try in the context of the match as well

Apart from the first 20 minutes on Friday I thought we were alright

We just didn't get the bounce of the ball (Donald's try) or the close calls (Hock's no try) and even a couple blatantly obvious calls (Burrow's try, Hock getting the ball ripped)

If those things went our way the result of the match would have still gone their way (rightfully so) but it would have been a lot closer and a lot more exciting game

And none of them jokers at Sky even mentioned it

Donald definitley picks the ball up in front of where Kirke passed it, however, IMO the initial pass went backwards and then bounced forward. IIRC don't the rules say this is play on. I may be wrong on this though and the only replays I have seen were on the screen at the opposite end of the ground on Friday. As a Leeds fan I was glad Smith didn't go to the screen as I wouldn't have been surprised to see it disallowed.

Never!

If you look were Kirke unloads the ball lands at least a yard in front of were he released it! He also has a defender on his right side, he would be a magician to make it go back travelling at that speed and to get the pass backwards around the defender?
IF
Donald Catches it you could bring in momentum but he didn't therefore isn't that a Knock on???

On the other Hand - Benefit of the Doubt for Peacocks try???
Donald's touchdown after Ainscough Mis Kick (I think it was just about a try but I've seen them ruled out).
Hock's disallowed were Ablett made No atttempt to get on the outside of the O'Loughlin to make the tackle on Hock.
Centimetres in Ainscough offside decision.
Richards over the top pass to Bailey? Definately went forward but less so IMO than Kirkes to Donald.

Overall I dont believe it was Completely Leeds Great play that created the 22-0 situation, We were at least 50% responsible with our poor ball control in key areas.
I agree with Carney comments Post Match (BTW Cant we have him instead of Offiah in future On SKY?) were he said there was a lot to work with at Wigan as the mistakes that led to the 22-0 lead were fixable.

Overall I thought Smith had a poor game (Both Sides) but I do believe it is better to see a game flow like that than a Penaltython of 12 months ago!

I have a shot of Donald which shows a gap between his arm and the ball. Can't post it though.

Smith was getting brutal abuse from the Wigan fans when Hall scored his 2nd. He even had a look up and then a pint of lager was chucked in his direction, which I don't agree with as most of it went on me! . One woman I literally thought was going to explode, it was just pure expletives!

A very poor ref's performance on Friday, worst I've seen in ages. the ripping out of the ball from Hock (twice) were just rubbish and cost us tries on both occassions I think. Sure that Donald knocked on before passing to Burrow as well, not seen the TV replay since.

Well beaten all the same, but bad reffing annoys the fans big time.

If the match had not been televised the tries that Wigan had disallowed would have stood, because the Ref/assistant ref's made no objection.

that would have put us 6 points behind.

Consistantcy is what is needed to do this, the Video ref should be just that,
a video ref, there is only 1 televised match at a time, and the same person could pass judgement over all televised matches. Out of how may referees there are 1 should only be a Video ref.

With this there would be no different interpretations as he should(?) judge every decision the same, he would also be able to use previous decisions as an aid to make the correct decision

As for Smith......

Thats because they know what they are talking about. And would not want to look a fool to the nation, like the fools on this message board.

It is not forward, It is clearly passed backwards with the movement of his hands. The speed of the play may well make the ball move flat, but then it bounces on the floor and forward from there. Donald does not tough the ball before picking up properly, as some numpty suggested.

Had that ball been forward we would have heard nothing else but that from the commentry team, remember two of which ex Wigan players, and one of which had to be reminded that he was supposed to be neutral.

And get your heads out of your bottys on the hock situations. One of those reefs was 50/50 fair enough, and thats 50/50 not certain, the others were clear dropped balls.

While we mention Smith getting things wrong. Where do you stand on the clear cheap shot punch for all to see from hock on Sinfield, whilst Loughling was hold of his collar and another Wigan player pulling at him? Or for that matter the eye gouging on Watkins underneath 3 Wigan players on top of him?

No they wouldn't. And had they done it would have been wrong, with no doubt no complaining from the likes of you.

I was sat directly behind the obstruction situation and was screaming as to why Smith even went to the video. It was as clear a no try obstruciton as you are likely to see, and the touch judge indicated this to him immediatley.

As I was behind the posts I could not comment at the time on the offiside ruling, as I also could not see the video clearly. But on watching on TV later, you can see it is clear. The ref obviously knew this as he went to the video for checking.

I started highlighting all the occasions were Your FACTSare actually OPINIONS!

Then I realised that's exactly what Your Whole post is! An Opinion!

Having been sat at the Manly game a Fortnight earlier I can without a shadow of a doubt tell you that IMO Leeds fans are the Worst Losers I have ever come across, My 9 year old son being verbally abused by grown men (And not joking, actual abuse) at the ground before,during & after the game for wearing a Manly Shirt.
At least 6 fights I witnessed during and after the game instigated by Leeds "Supporters"!
Complete slating of the referee who IN MY OPINION had a good game!
The chanting of Baileys & Peacocks name after the Brawl's which IMO they Started as they realised they couldnt live with Manly!

Now I am sure you will have some different OPINIONS of these events and I don't doubt you will be right on some and wrong on others but Guess What?

You won't see me calling you a "Fool" or a "Numpty" etc

It must be Fantastic living in this Wonderful World were you are always right, Leeds Fans are always right, Your the best team and when you win your perfect and when you lose it's someone elses fault!
It reminds me very much of the World Saints Fans have lived in for the last 5 years or so & the one we lived in for 10 years or so in the 80's & 90's!

Guess What?

This world doesn't exist, You Don't know more than every other fan of every other team, Your team just wins more at the moment!