Some more amusing stuff on here from people that simply don't get it.

Many pro-SC people continue to say that clubs can't pay more. They are confusing two issues: what the salary cap should be and what an individual club should be able to spend. Regardless of where the cap is set a club should not be allowed to overspend (a major and obvious problem with the current system which few pro-SC people strangely seem to acknowledge, despite the long list of clubs getting into financial difficulty - anyone would thing that they had another agenda! ).

They are ignoring the inexorable erosion of salaries due to inflation. £100 in 2011 is worth only c£70 in 1998 terms. We are heading for a semi-pro future for RL in this country. This is just basic maths and economics. The game has gone backwards in the last 15 years under the present system.

It's time to start a debate about whether people want the game to go semi-professional and if not, what we are going to do about it. If people don't want a semi-pro future then simply sitting on our hands isn't an option. Before too long RL will cease to be able to support full time professional sides.

And in relation to hazy memories of the late 80s and early 90s I remember clearly an international scene that was much healthier than it is now, with a British side that was genuinely competitive with the Aussies and big crowds at Old Trafford and Wembley for RL internationals.

I think we should just accept that the Salary Cap is never going to be abolished.

In the light of Ashton and Eastmond's defections it doesn't seem quite so heretical any more to suggest that it should be. But if it was done away with, too many clubs would go to the wall. Clubs are going to the wall even with the Cap, so imagine what would happen without it.

There's nothing we can do about this - there are just too many poverty row clubs filling our so-called top tier.

However, to compensate those of our clubs who have managed to develop their business to a successful level, what we need are Salary Cap dispensations on club-trained players - thus rewarding those clubs who are refuelling the talent reservoir, and maybe dispensations on players signed from Rugby Union. I'm not talking about overpaid big name RU 'stars', but maybe some deal can be made regarding their younger players. Just a little something so that, while they're cheerfully taking from us, we can - occasionally and hopefully very irritatingly - take from them.

That would seem to be a reasonable way forward, and I'm struggling to see why anyone would object.

There will always be someone to object because some people always moan at the slightest thing

I can't see anyone objecting to on offset allowance for home grown players, in fact, that should be one of the high-scoring parts of franchise criteria: how and what resources do you place on developing your own talent pool. That said, not being privvy to the assessment criteria, it may well be in.

Deano G, there are three clubs who made a profit within the year, deapite not having their current accounts, I would wager they all have a historical debt. In fact, I will quite hapily send you the last set of accounts for Wigan submitted in 2009 which showed operating costs £500k in excess of turnover. Cite inflation all you want, the simple fact is income streams are being extracted th the nth degree.

As for being a pro-SC, which club do you think would benefit the most from relaxing the rules. Those with a Sugar Daddy, of course, which my club has one, and a very generous one at that.

Agree with pretty much all of that Cruncher. To abolish the SC just wouldn't be practical, but something has to be done to keep the best young, English players in the game. The salary cap needs, at least, to rise with inflation. There is a difference between keeping the cap the same and effectively lowering it. I don't want to see clubs going into administration or disappearing completely, but I don't want to see a league devoid of young talented players, as they cannot earn a living playing rugby league. Those people who want to see less foreign players (and think that by keeping things as they are this will happen) need to realise that it will also decrease the number of quality English players in league too, unless some sort of dispensation is made towards players brought through a clubs youth system.

I wonder what that STG sides wage bill is ?

More than any SL sides anyway i bet

On a straight currency conversion it may well be. You'd have to get an economist to work out what the average wage per player is vs. the cost of living in the country for a true reflection. Back when sterling was much stronger against the Aus$ than it is now, the common complaint from the NRL clubs was that they couldn't compete with the offers being made to their players by the ESL clubs. Swings and roundabouts an economics, they are never simple and I doubt we have many economists posting on this forum to give us a true answer.

I think Brett Kenny is an economist, you just multiply wages by inflation every year and clubs go out and increase turnover by 10% annually (presumably by selling TV rights and shirts to the emerging Eastern European market for RL) until we're paying more than union.

Nah, you just allow the currently successful clubs to use their prize money to pay players more and then bury your head in the sand about the consequences of not having a successful trophy ridden year or having to spend that money on things like ground safety due to deteriorating stadiums etc.

Why would that happen with the home-grown and federation trained rules in place? If needs be these rules could be strengthended.

Wigan have one of the best youth systems going with many players who took part in the WCC game home-grown. Leeds and Saints have good systems and its no coincidence IMO they have been sucessful sides.

If there has been a problem with transfers in recent years in the era of the salary cap its too few clubs doing this and living off other clubs production lines. Hudds are Wigan MkII. Prior to this the obsession with Kolpak players was a fine example of the short term thinking of those running clubs.



Well I am glad someone thinks they are underpaid because they are. As to it being a bigger challenge now given the current climate to raise money this is true but at least it should affect the rival sports as well. The problem is the sport has failed to raise the income enough to increase the cap well before the financial crisis happened so I don't see the crisis as a legitimate excuse for whay the cap has remained stuck at the current level. It would be too easy to blame the crisis for an inability to increase revenue going forward over the next few years but I am sure the RFL will do so.

That's a fair and valid point - with such rules in place it should mitigate if not stop those kind of situations from arising. Although there is also the problem that if you start telling clubs that they must pay some sort of penalty for bringing their junior players in from outside of their own service area you could argue that it is anti competetive and you are denying kids from signing on with clubs that they want to be at, rather than clubs their are geographically assigned to because of where they happen to live and/or play their junior rugby.



Agreed. My complaint about Warrington at the moment is that we do not have enough home grown players in our side, that is gradually starting to change but given the terrible starting point we had (When Cullen came to the helm, we had one player from the area, Clarke - and he wasn't a product of our Junior system, but Wigan's), it's going to be at least a few more years before we can see the staffing levels even out to a more acceptable "locally produced" level in comparison to Wigan/Leeds/Saints.



No arguments from me on that, Dave.



Anybody who thinks they aren't perhaps don't realise the truth of the matter. the "stars" of the game may be on what those of us on national average wages may consider to be a lot of money, but for what they put their bodies through and the entertainment they provide it is still way too low - and the general unrecognised work horses in teams would be lucky to be on anything even approaching £30k a year.



It will affect them of course but comparatively I think it will affect them slightly less, the more glamorous sports are still a draw, the monies involved may be less but will still be substantially more than RL can ever dream of bringing in. It is the unfortunate truth of things.



It's good to see you at least agree with me that the only logical way we can increase the cap is to first concentrate on bringing more money in to the sport. I'm not sure those who simply say "we should be allowed to spend more" really realise the financial state of the game and what would be required to do so in a sustainable way. The argument of "we're being restricted to the same spending level of the small clubs" is hogwash IMO, I reckon at the moment only Wigan, Warrington and Leeds are able to spend up to the full salary cap, Saints may be able to do so once their new ground is built and they can start bringing more money in through corporate hospitality and sponsorship, and of course the decreased revenue drain that was maintaining Knowsley Rd for safety in previous seasons, and this season renting a ground from a third party. If saints are already spending at the full level, it would surprise (and impress) me.

What has the salary cap got to do with clubs going broke?
All the clubs that have gone bust recently have been under some sort of salary cap depending on their division. They, nevertheless, have gone broke. The salary cap has not stopped them doing so.
It original and sole purpose was to stop clubs going broke, it has failed. The SC needs to be replaced by a system that WILL stop clubs going broke.
Perhaps instead of the SC we need a "Financilly Break Even" rule.
Then clubs can spend money where they like and where they need to as long as they financially break even at the end of the tax year.
Club's finances would be judged on the accounts submitted to Companies House.

On the separate issue of recruitment, training and retaining of players then perhaps go the Aussie way and introduce a points system.
The Aussies are trialling a system this year and next to eventually replace their salary cap.
We need a points system to suit British Rugby League and not just replicate the NRL version when it is decided upon.
The purpose to encourage clubs to recruit, train and improve players to first team level. Clubs who produce Internationals would be rewarded and those who bring in Internationals from abroad or other British clubs have a restrictive points base. Easy really.
The RFL/SL need to get to work on it quickly or else it will be another thing the Aussies will be leaving us behind on.

No SL club could build that STG team..

Its a huge advantage for the NRL teams