A good scrap makes it spicey and games are miles better when there has been a scrap in them as it raises the team and the intensity. See GB v Aus after Mason eathered Fielden, that game started off dull as dish water and after that fight it galvonised the team and they went on to win. Its referees spoiling it, its worse in the NRL though, Moi moi and Dane Laurie were going at each other hell for leather but nothing dirty just big hits and that and the referee kept getting involved teling them to pack it in WTF?

Don't get me started on refs!

I was just mentioning the number of players playing the game in Australia. RU isn't quite in the brilliant state that you're suggesting that's all. It's had a stronger international game than ours for years.



I don't really want to turn this into a discussion about RU but it depends on what you mean by larger strides. Isn't the professional club scene dying out in Wales and Scotland? Aren't English RU clubs struggling to keep hold of their players because of the higher spending power of the French RU? (rlRU and the salary caprl). Has their club and grass roots scene grown as much as Super League over the past ten years? How many new clubs have sprung up during that time? Hasn't our Summer Conference been a success? Would that have happened without Super League?

From what I see the best bits of their growth have come from them having more countries playing the game e.g. the European Cup thing. I don't think you can point at Super League and say it's not grown as much as the British RU club scene. We've done exceptionally well with the resources we have. If Super League had as much money in it as RU I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest we'd have done a lot more. Look at our club games attendances compared to what they were. Look at the new grounds we've got. Look at our Grand Final. There's a lot to be very proud of about our sport and this constant knocking of the sport is traditional in RL even when we do make great progress e.g. the snipes towards Celtic, Harlequins RL and Catalan Dragons.

Totally agree.

That's not really relevant to the point that was being made though, was it? I could quite easily point to the fact that 2 weeks ago, over 40,000 people turned out to a meaningless RU international... in the North West of England. Is that indicative of RU making the greatest advancement relative to other sports? Possibly. Not that I'm happy with that, at all.

Edited for accuracy

Whilst I agree with most of your points I think the one biggest thing that the Union world has done is to virtually takeover the term "Rugby" in so much that it is almost a patented term for them these days.
Nowadays when anybody be it the media or the public ringing in to national talk shows (eg Talksport) refer to Rugby do they distinguish it by using the Union or League monikers.

The RL world has failed to do anything about this.

Astonishing.

That would be the RU club scene that sees Zurich premiership average attendances exceeding SL, would it?

There are some truly ludicrous posts on this thread from Saints/pro-CC people.

If anyone reading this thread has any doubt about which side of the debate is sensible and rational, just consider for a moment the following ridiculous claims made by pro-CC people in a desperate bid to convince us (I wonder at times if they're desperately trying to convince THEMSELVES )

3. Jason Robinson only looked good against semi-pro defences.

4. Vila Matautia - fourth choice Saints centre in 1996 - proves that squads were much weaker back then compared with today.

5. SL is in great shape and doing better than club RU in Britain.

6. We should be looking forward to the Four Nations, England is closer to the Aussies now than the early-mid 90s.

This is just a selection, anyone who wants to do some digging will find other bizarre arguments being advanced by the desperate Saints supporting pro-CC camp.

It was hilarious yesterday on Sky.

Eddie: "It's sad to see a young man aged 22 leaving our code"

Steve: "Something must be done......."

Barrie Mac: "It's the Salary Cap"

He then obviously got a dig from someone.

"er it evens up the competition............"


Utter shambles.

If you take the twelve teams who were in SL last year, they are all playing better rugby than last year except Leeds, Bulls and Wigan. If you mean that SL is worse because other teams have improved, then fine. In fact, the salary cap bitterness is misleading, because you have probably assembled the most expensive team in SL, because you buy in. Not many other teams could have bought Barrett, Fielden, Gleeson, Tim Smith. The only way the Salary Cap has hindered you is that you don't have all the other stars playing in your reserves and have to play teams that can put out good home grown squads.

Your season this year is nothing to do with the salary cap. The best purchases this year were Mick Potter, Nathan Brown and Tony Smith. There's a clue there.

Another self-righteous pro CC muppet who misunderstands the points being made.

what I do undetstand is that Wakey have no money and are skint. We couldn't afford any of your players and are 6th place. It is nothing to do with money. The so-called lesser teams are all playing better rugby, which is again nothing to do with the salary cap. The salary cap is just as much of a risk to us as our limited income limits our ability to pay wages, but the finances of the clubs seem to be in better shape than before it, because no club seems at risk of going bust.

There is better quality of rugby being played this year. I accept that a Wigan fan wouldn't see that, as it has mostly been played at places other than JJB. If you were top, I don't think you would be bleating, and you are 10th for reasons other than salary cap, namely that teams with less expensive players than yours have beaten you.

Nobody is talking about a Wigan POV. This 'better rugby' that clubs are playing is sh*te compared to the rugby that was being played pre SC and is why GB/England are going backwards.