FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Tomkins exit confirmed |
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| Quote: Pemps "Some time ago I had a chat with John Monie and I asked him who the best fullback is that he's coached at wigan. His reply was "When Hampo is fit, Hampo plays".
I believe he was a scrum half in his youth. Maybe he was the first 3/4 fullback.'"
Maybe he was. I wish I still had this old 1980s NRL video. At the end of it was a run through of golden boot candidates, including Hampson. (around the time when we had a bulldog esq away kit) He was superb, and often did link in the line. When all's said and done, he's arguably a better all-round than Sam.
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| Quote: Cruncher "Not having the figures to hand, how do you know that Sam was only asking the market rate?
Would you not at least consider that the French are being silly, probably because they are in desperate straits? Why is it always Wigan who are at fault?'"
Why are you even asking given what you say above has absolutely nothing to do with the points I was making in reply to JTB? His first point about the club being run as business and his second was about Tomkins form. Those are the points I was replying to . What the French are peperared to pay and why they may be was not what was being discussed.
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "It has. But in comparison to Rads? Criticism is fair.'"
Rads is from a different era. I can remember posting on here about Rads great defence and how important I thought it was and being told that was now secondary in the modern day of the 1 who is really a 6 to justify Tomkins being moved to FB. While the glib answer is it would be good if the full back possessed both skills that wasn't or isn't the modern thinking in that the requirement for a Rads style full back is not there anymore. So I don't see how the criticism is fair if the role of the FB has changed.
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| Quote: DaveO "Rads is from a different era. I can remember posting on here about Rads great defence and how important I thought it was and being told that was now secondary in the modern day of the 1 who is really a 6 to justify Tomkins being moved to FB. While the glib answer is it would be good if the full back possessed both skills that wasn't or isn't the modern thinking in that the requirement for a Rads style full back is not there anymore. So I don't see how the criticism is fair if the role of the FB has changed.'"
Disagree. Criticism or comparison defensively is still very fair. The attacking game of a FB has changed, been developed for the better. But the defensive element is still the same. Arguably the defensive requirements of the FB is more important than any other position in the team, to disregard how Sam is defensively compared to Rads or any other FB is ignoring the defensive requirements of a FB.
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| Quote: Grimmy "I know it seems almost certain that Hardaker will be the replacement, but would it not be worth looking for a marquee 7 instead? I feel like overall I'd prefer
Escare is not good enough to play 7.
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| Quote: Sweaty Betty's "Escare is not good enough to play 7.'"
Or Fullback as a starting option.
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| Quote: Sweaty Betty's "Escare is not good enough to play 7.'"
Agreed, I don't see him as a 7 either, but I think bench 7 will be his role If we do get Hardaker
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| Quote: Grimmy "Agreed, I don't see him as a 7 either, but I think bench 7 will be his role If we do get Hardaker'"
Escare as utility cover for me. Or sadly we see him leave. If we're striving to be the best we possibly can be, I don't think Escare makes the cut. Hardaker is a top top FB, it's his position with Escare as cover, similar to how he covers now.
As utility, I see his worth, can cover 1, 2/5, 6/7 and probably interchange 9. Players will always pick up injuries/suspensions throughout the course of a season.
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| Life after ST will be interesting and there’ll be lots of discussion before next season. We could be in for a complete overhaul if Gildart, Sutton & Bateman follow him out of the door.
Hardaker is a better FB than Escare and should not be moved to centre to accommodate Escare.
1 - Hardaker
6- Williams
7 - new marquee
9 - Leuluai (supported by Ganson)
13 - Lockers
It seems really harsh because I really like Escare but he is only a squad player with good pace. I hope he stays but I can’t see it. Likewise with Powell. He’s not good enough to be our 7 and isn’t good enough to be our starting 9. Both decent squad players but when compared to others in their positions, they’re not as good.
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| Quote: Bigredwarrior "Life after ST will be interesting and there’ll be lots of discussion before next season. We could be in for a complete overhaul if Gildart, Sutton & Bateman follow him out of the door.
Hardaker is a better FB than Escare and should not be moved to centre to accommodate Escare.
1 - Hardaker
6- Williams
7 - new marquee
9 - Leuluai (supported by Ganson)
13 - Lockers
It seems really harsh because I really like Escare but he is only a squad player with good pace. I hope he stays but I can’t see it. Likewise with Powell. He’s not good enough to be our 7 and isn’t good enough to be our starting 9. Both decent squad players but when compared to others in their positions, they’re not as good.'"
I agree that looks better, but do you think it's realistic for us to sign both Hardaker and a marquee?
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| Quote: Grimmy "I agree that looks better, but do you think it's realistic for us to sign both Hardaker and a marquee?'"
I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we did get a marquee 7 but I can't see it for two reasons. First I would guess it's going to be at least as expensive as paying Tomkins what the club said it would in 2019 but welched on and it doesn't want to pay that kind of money. Secondly there is Wane's misplaced faith/loyalty in/to Powell who has the 7 shirt who was given a new improved deal at the start of this season.
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| Quote: Grimmy "I know it seems almost certain that Hardaker will be the replacement, but would it not be worth looking for a marquee 7 instead? I feel like overall I'd prefer
1. Hardaker 6.Williams 7. Woods or Sharrocks 9. Powell 14. Escare
We wont get a new Marquee will just see one of the players changed to Marquee - Bateman
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| Quote: King Johns II "1. Hardaker 6.Williams 7. Woods or Sharrocks 9. Powell 14. Escare
We wont get a new Marquee will just see one of the players changed to Marquee - Bateman'"
1 Hardaker
6 Williams
7 Shorrocks
9 Powell/Ganson
Perhaps? How's Shorrocks progressing?
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "1 Hardaker
6 Williams
7 Shorrocks
9 Powell/Ganson
Perhaps? How's Shorrocks progressing?'"
From what I've seen Salford fans aren't happy with him. I don't know how much game time he's had, but I saw someone say, "I can't believe we've got the only lad from Wigan never to have touched a rugby ball".
That said, it was on Twitter, so I shouldn't trust it too much.
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| Quote: DaveO "I am saying there is a going rate for Sam Tomkins. If that is the same or more than when he was at his peak then that just reflects the market for players today. The dearth of talent available to SL will put the value of the few class players knocking about in SL up even if they are no longer at their peak when they can play as well as Sam T still can.'"
I think the club have accurately assessed what his value is, as one of the three or four best Wigan players of the past decade, and have offered him that. Even Sam said it was a higher offer than he was expecting.
What I don't understand though, is Sam's insistence on going now, rather than in a few years time, when he could still afford the lifestyle while still having chance of more medals, perhaps even another MoS.
I don't think the club should have done any more than they have, to try and keep him.
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