So why is he so consistently average at international level? It can't just be because he's playing for England because Burgess, O'Loughlin and Hock have all outshone him

But is he actually and better in defence than H or Westwood last year(dropped abit this year IMO) does he break more than hock has he more handling skills than faz
Don't get me wrong he's a good player but just not as good as people mainly the media make out
I wouldn't start him in my England pack

I've got to say that minus the hype I'm not quite sure why Ellis gets talked of as being a huge player for England. He's a good player and always has been but he's a grafter, nothing more, nothing less IMO. He is consistant in attack making half decent yards but doesn't really do anything out if the ordinary and his defence is good. He certainly doesn't influence the game with the ball like Hock or Westwood can.

I'm not saying he's over rated saying this but rather the player I'm going to compare him to is underrated, he's a similar standard and type of player to Harrison Hansen.

My thoughts exactly - both are players anyone would want in their team/squad as they do all the basics right and you miss them when they are not there but neither is a game breaker/match winner.

Horses for courses.

Did you really just write that? Ellis is in a different league to players like Hansen.

The problem with your ilk is you never watch anyone else, be it opposition, or players from afar....

Paul Gallen is head and shoulders above ANY 13 worldwide...

Oh and he can play front row and second row when needed as well!

This is the key part. The NRL doesn't really use players in this manner, even though they have the players that could (and imo should) Lewis, Bird, Stewart, Mateo, (Wade) Graham, even SBW. Instead any back rower with a chance of playing a link role in addition to forward duty is automatically pushed wide as a second rower; and another battering ram/pure defender is put in the 13 shirt as lock - like Burgess, Gallen etc.

This is a very silly thread that needs locking.

Wigan fans will obviously think it's SOL.

Leeds/Saints/Wire fans will obviously think differently

All get ridiculed for their opinions. Round and round we go. Am I wrong?

MY ILK
WHO ARE U? REALLY !!!!
Do you think ill change MY opinion just because you told me too
If you bothered to read properly I said IMO
So jog on

This thread is more entertaining than a cas game

Ellis over rated
SOL best 13 worldwide
ST the best British player in the SL era

Just......

O'Loughlin is probably the best 13 in SL at the moment but I think a lot of them are not conventional 13's like Bailey. Glenn Stewart is probably the most traditional of the aussies and he's a player I really rate. I had to laugh when I saw the Mossop as a starting prop considering that 3 of the props in an England squad will be Graham and Burgess twins, that's without counting that Sam, who is the best forward in the world, could be on the front row depending on how Mcbanana wants to accommodate his back rowers.

George Burgess should be lining up for England in the summer but i'm not so sure about Tom Burgess. Tom has only played a handful of NRL games this season so I can't imagine he's improved dramatically from the player we all saw at Bradford. Don't get me wrong he could be a stellar player but i don't think he's done anything to deserve that call just yet.

Ellis, Sam Burgess, George Burgess & Graham are the probably the only 'definites' on the team sheet. Guys like Mossop, Hock, Westwood, Lockers & Sinfield could play massive parts and then again depending on what side is picked they could see hardly any game time.

Exciting times when picking a potential pack.

George Roby/Micky mac. Graham
Hock. Sam
Lockers

G Burgess/Roby/Graham
Westwood/S Burgess
O'Loughlin
Three of four subs:
T Burgess, Ellis, Crabtree