In all animal species the "Alpha Male" always reacts in the same way when he feels a threat to his dominance, he gets rid of the threat.

It's not a matter pf getting a few bodies back. Surely, for a start, we must at any rate replace Smith? He's never been great, but he often used to be good, and I just can't see him ever being good again. In a Wigan shirt, anyway. Arguing about the quality or predictability of the plays seems almost academic when they are being executed so poorly that there's no chance of success anyway.

Wigan aren't the issue, the league is! We can't compete with Uunion and the NRL and therefore the best players are all going elsewhere and the quality drops. In terms of where the leagues at our squad is actually a very good one.

To sit here and say we're boring, our attack isn't functioning and so on is correct but surely people don't believe that will still be the case when we get all of our players back on board? It may still be a structured approach which we will play with but once we've got our attacking threats back in their correct positions and the team is settled we'll be absolutely fine!

I'm in agreement that we need to tweek a few things for next year (I'm in the camp that says Smiths time is up) but to read some posts you'd think we'd played with a full team all year and still hasn't been attacking well. We just need to be patient.

+1

Lots of calls for an attacking coach and it's the same over on our board. But isn't that what's making the game predictable, both for spectators and defences? It seems to me like an increasing number of teams rely on a fairly limited repertoire of well-rehed moves. Individual flair is the missing ingredient, not further coaching.

I get what you're saying but teams still need attacking moves for something to fall back on, call it a plan A. I'd also like to see teams play off the cuff to at certain points of the game, I enjoy the free play ruling as this allows that to happen.

Maybe incorporate the free play to more offences other than knock on.

Off the cuff rugby does have its risks (more mistakes likely) and as we are quite a structured team it stands out that we have only a couple of players that can play to this rule. Sam Tomkins & Gelling.

Gelling has been a breath of fresh air with some of his rugby (nobody knows what he's doing including him). Sometimes he's created or scored tries from it, other times he's bombed as many or put out errors in our own twenty.

We do need these types of players though as we look to them when we go into the final stages of a match losing by a couple. Gelling to Manfredi looping pass to win it against Salford springs to mind!

At times the attack looked as clueless last season including in the GF where we let Leeds off the hook. It didn't look good this season before the injuries kicked in.

Unless Sam T is the answer I don't think there is much evidence to suggest it will function much better when the players return.

The other thing is the club has known how long the players injured are out for and for most it is more than short term yet is trying to play the same attack with players who can't execute it and/or are unfamiliar with each other.

For this attack to work it must be drilled an executed to perfection. Even before you ask the question is our current best first 17 capable of doing this (I don't think it is) it's not reasonable to expect that to occur with the disruption to the side, yet we still keep sticking to plan A.

Our attack was fine for the majority of last year. It will be better this year IMO once Tomkins and co are back and we're settled because Tomkins is better then Bowen and far more suited to put style of play (one which was pretty much adopted to fit in around him). We've got Gelling and Manfredi to come back who've been devastating already and will link up superbly with Tomkins. We have George Williams who's a year older and again is another who'll benefit from playing with Tomkins (and will actually benefit from the rest he's getting) and put back row will be outstanding when all the options are back in there.

Optimistic? Maybe but I don't see too many better 17's knocking about then the one we should be able to get on the field in a month or so's time.

As Wane would say 'I'm not stressed'.

Me either, and it's a great time for the "Misery Mafia", so, happiness all around..

I usually agree with you Nicky but this time I'm nowhere near as optimistic as yourself.
I thought we were poor and boring last season and the early part of this season I thought we had gone even worse after the departure of our only strike players namely Bowen and Burgess.
ST will have to play his A game from match 1 and continue to do so for every game he plays to give us even an inkling of a stepped change.
I personally can't believe that we do any work with the ball. We can't or won't pass, play so flat it's obvious we have no intention of trying to backup or look for offloads, offer zero options when we are in the opposition 20 metre zone other than a high kick to the wings. It's been the same way for a season and a half so unless ST works the oracle I just don't see where the improvement will come from.
I could cope with a conservative approach if we had a decent pack who could make good yards but apart from Farrell & Bateman(and he is very quiet this year) we have no forwards who can do the hard yards and none seem capable other than 15 minute cameos of dreary 5 yard gains and 3 men tackles then shuffle off because they look shattered or perhaps more accurately they were always going to be spelled after 15 minutes come what may. Tautai has improved significantly this year yet never does more than 20 minute stints - if he is in form why can't he complete a full 80 minutes?
I just find our whole demeanour and approach dreary, listless, predictable and joyless. I'm sick of hearing of toughness, middles and "the Wigan way". What the hell does the Wigan way mean? We will lose a few games over the next few weeks and these terms will be churned out repeatedly as if saying things will change everything.
I've thought this way for nearly 2 years so this isn't a reaction to a few recent losses or the absence of a few players. I've followed the club for nearly 50 years and have seen far far worse teams but I can't recall previously ever being bored rigid watching a game.
I sincerely hope your upbeat outlook is delivered and that I'm way over the top but I won't hold my breath.

I'm somewhere in between itchy and Nicky as usual. I'm not at all convinced that everything will be OK once we get players back, based on the fact that our attack has been patchy and poorly executed for a long time now. I see "Wigan-style plays" executed by NRL sides and still be very effective, But, and it's a big but, that's if executed perfectly, with each pass hitting the mark so players don't have to pause or stretch behind them to reach the ball. Of course having ST, Gells and Williams back will help enormously, but I can't help but also worry whether, after such a long time out, ST will ever be quite the same player again.

I'm convinced we'll be OK because of two things-

1-We have some fantastic talent to come back in

And

2-The leagues awful! I'm not say here pretending we've been perfect, in fact we've been ordinary but even with rafts of injuries, a faltering attacking and a 62-0 loss we're still only two points of top place.

Should we be happy with ending up being the best of a bad bunch? Maybe not but it'll be better then being middle of the road in a bad bunch. Maybe I'm deluded but get is fit and healthy and we're very capable of that IMO.

ST is a fantastic player but like yourself I am worried that his injury may have longer term consequences.
I remember when the club stated he may be back for Easter I smelled a rat because someone I know very closely linked with the club advised me of the severity of the injury and that he would not be back before the end of May and that date was quite optimistic.
If we don't get ST back before the start of the Super 8s or whatever they are called I genuinely think we could drop like a stone because we are that poor an attacking threat. We aren't the second lowest scoring team in the league for no reason.

One point that seems to disappeared is the fact we have no goal kicker. I can't think of any team winning major honours without a decent goal kicker yet we seem to think we can get by. This for me symptomatic of the current state of the club i.e. poor planning, rank bad PR re the HKR fixture, burying our head in the sand when we have obvious problems and contradictive statements eg when the Roosters gave us a good hiding we state we need a bigger pack then proceed to develop the smallest pack for many years.
I just see this as poor management and poor management always ends up on the shop floor.
To some I'm one of the "misery mafia" to me I'm just baffled as to how in a few short years we have gone from the most entertaining team in the competition to a team that has me questioning do I really want to keep watching something that presently gives me zero excitement and is a joyless 80 minutes every week.

I think the sheer low standard of the league will help Wigan and in the end Leeds out.

I too have doubts that ST will ever be the player he once was time will tell i suppose i can easily see him not starting a game this season if im honest.