I think you're doing a big diservice to Warrington and Tony Smith there (god i'm defending Wire now).

I think the Wire fans will confirm that there's been a 'culture change' since Smith took over, and I think it's no coincidence that they've won a trophy after this and not before.

PRE Smith!!

Like or dislike Tony Smith he's known as an authoritarian kind of coach and the minute he stepped into Warrington things started to change. Players like Gleeson were shipped out and other like Briers we told buck up or your out- Remember the Briers to Celtic rumours btw?

You’ve still not answered the question however of what you think a culture at a club represents?

Culture3. The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group

No 3. Is essentially what most people are trying to relate to in this thread,

To have a winning culture throughout the club all players, coaches, staff and even fans have to pull in the same direction, have one ideal, shared desire to be the best and not to rest until you are top of the pile.

As an outsider it never looked that way under Nobby, he could explain away defeats too readily, there never seemed a "Testicleing" after a loss, players were clearly under prepared against lower placed teams. If anything the fans had to take it upon themselves to show it meant more to them than it did the players or coaches.

Nobby was very successful at an already well set up Bulls but having to start from a team in crisis he had to build again and was found wanting.

In a winning culture there would be:

- No under preperation (You admit this happened lots)
- You could only possibly be ouplayed by superior teams (though eventually there would be NO superior teams)
- No one would be happy with reaching just a semi final or even a final

The new men in charge currently show signs of creating a winning desire and drive & , its a very positive outlook for Wigan - they are almost certainly going to improve in 2010, they will be fitter, leaner and more driven than in recent times.

If the players live up to the coaches Saints and Leeds (and Huddersfield if they continue to improve) will by vying with a 3rd team for top dog next time round.

Agreed



Of course they don't and that's why they don't often lose to teams like that. No team should expect to win any game.



Partly agreed, but most of the culture is built off-field and I don't think the players we have atm aren't that bad of a bunch together.



Where did I say I was happy to write them off? I'm a realist and as already said, you shouldn't expect to win any game. Some of the teams we've lost against have also beaten Leeds and Saints. It's quite simple that on some days you have to accept you are beaten by the better team and until you can accept that then stupid defeats like that will happen.



Agreed.



As far as I'm aware, Rads was talking about the culture around the Millward era. Obviously we've come a long way since then, so I'll ask again, what culture?

The things you mention happened last year. I don't think the culture at the club is so bad at the moment. At the back end of the season, the players seemed like they were enjoying playing and actually following the coach's orders. Obviously this could go tits up again by the start of next year and it's MM/Wane's job to see that it doesn't but I don't think an overhaul of the clubs culture is necessary.

Wire won the cup after Smith came in and broke them of some very bad habits. Prior to that, they'd done just enough to finish about 5th from the bottom. So that's a very poor analogy.

But I still don't think you understand what we're talking about here. The Wigan culture, or ethos, is far about more than just avoiding drink and drugs. The Wigan ethos, re-established so effectively during the Lowe/Monie era, is about striving to be the best in every possible way, and not just paying lip service to that tenet. It's about refusing to accept, tolerate or even make excuses for mediocrity. It's about not being impressed by getting to five semi-finals, which at the end of the day are completely meaningless if you don't get any further. It's about beating Leeds one week and totally hammering Celtic the next (not losing to them, and thereby rendering the points you earned at Leeds null and void).

It's not about arrogance. It's about ambition. It's not about assuming that you have a right to be the best, but it's about aspiring to be the best, and trying as hard as you can to make that a reality.

You're attitude seems to be that we did pretty well this year, and that that's something to be proud of. You seem to imply that the players enjoy being together, so that means they've got a good culture. You seem to regard embarrassing defeats with a shrug of your shoulders and make the rather glib and worryingly unscientific statement "we were outplayed". Such an attitude, I'm now proud to say, is not shared by the Wigan club.

There have even been incidents since Smith has taken over. The Harrison/Bridge one to mention just one.

Them beating us in the CC SF has nothing to do with their or our culture whatsoever.

I'd say it is 100% to do with it.

Part of Wigan's non-culture under Brian Noble was a complete inability to step up to the highly intensive atmosphere of a semi-final. Another part was their lack of adequate mental strength to handle such an occasion. Once or two semi defeats you could maybe forgive, but five times on the trot suggests there is a problem. The fact that Brian didn't seem to recognise that is not in his favour. The club did, and have taken appropriate action.

Sigh, not this again. I was at pretty much every embarrassing defeat this year - Hull away, Celtic away, Hudds away. You think I enjoyed being there? It's not just us that has embarrassing defeats. Just that we have them more often.

It's exactly the attitude that's been demonstrated so well by both Leeds and Saints over the past few years - which is part of why they're the best in SL.

The culture at wigan under Brian Noble has been one of the results do not matter.

Noble is all about performance with the belief that if you perform the results will take care of themself.

That is just plain wrong as far as im concerned.

There is suggestions in wanes interview that there have been times when training has not been tough enough and the winning culture is not in place.

Just listened to it myself now I have got home. Great interview.

I agree with what's been said in the this thread as regards the culture by Cruncher and the rest. What you get on the pitch is a product of what goes on off it.

This is why I don't subscribe to the notion Noble has put things in place to take us forward. The new coaches will be changing things not carrying on with the same old systems. We have threads on here about poor culture and lack if fitness in the team. About to listen to the Radio Manchester program so it will be interesting if anything else comes out that isn't right currently.

Dave