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Quote: MR FRISK "where have the 15,000 or so that used to watch in 2010-2012 gone to

Are you taking the mick? You are one of them, in fact you had happily admitted over the last few years that you no longer go to games at all, almost gleefully at times weirdly. You have your reasons for it, fair enough but rather than asking the question why don't you just tell us why you dont.....

By the way I'm a ex Season ticket holder, home and (mostly) away but in recent years work commitments at weekends have limited my attendance at games. I do try to watch as many live games as I can which is normally around half a dozen a season. The Leigh game was my first one back since the start of the pandemic and I plan to go to the Saints & Leeds home games in August, hopefully.

Theres a number of factors why average attendances have declined from 15k.

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Quote: Cruncher " With the exception of the over-compensating Sky commentary team, for whom everything is incredibly exciting, and the atmosphere at half-full stadia is the best they've ever experienced, and such-and-such-a-virtually-unknown player is the best in the game at whatever it is he's just done, I feel there's a genuine worry in the air.

The fact we've all been watching so much more of the NRL has also contributed to this, as it's clearly shown us what an RL competition can look like when it reaches its full potential. That's something we've not seen in the UK for decades (if at all) and despite the forthcoming changes (which are obviously only coming because they've been forced upon us), it feels as though it's further away now than ever '"


Quote: Cruncher " The game was at its strongest around the early 00's, Saints & Bradford competing for honours in front of large crowds, with Leeds hit on their heels and us finding a resurgence after a couple of years of no success.

Trying to get the sport back to strength to around that time is what we should be aiming for. Needs strong leadership from management (Rimmer isn't the man in my opinion).

If your Wakeys, Castleford.... etc. Don't want to sign up for it then let them decay further. Better 2-3 clubs with no ambition than restricting 9-10 clubs ultimately forcing them to go semi pro.'"


These quotes sum it up for me and are absolutely spot on the money.
In the early 2000's i rarely missed a game on sky and went to all wigan games....Im what you would call a RL obsessive, to the point that I struggle with other sports because they offer nothing in comparison to our game. But the sad fact is that the product has been in terminal decline in this country for many years. The salary cap has not helped and the standard of the game has diminished to the lowest common denominator. They got what they wanted (competitiveness), but basically most teams now play at a similar level to your salfords and huddersfields, rather than drive the game forward!

These days I watch all wigan games, but don't always go, and struggle to get motivated for anything but the bigger games. In terms of watching other SL on tele, I won't even bother unless its a combination of catalans, wire, saints, leeds, hull, possibly cas playing each other.....even then, i usually check the report at half time and if its looking like a good game i'll watch the second half.

Compare to SL circa early 2000s when i would sit down to every game to watch from the build up, or the NRL, where i can watch 4/5 games a weekend with no club affiliation and I am clamoring for more!

IMO there are THREE huge problems the game has;

i) Appeal of the game - Still played predominantly in relatively small northern towns, to small amounts of the population. Add the populations of all RL towns together and you're looking at approx 2.6m people (4% of the total population). Never was this more apparent to me than a family holiday two years ago when facing impossible problems to find a pub in Truro with Leeds v Wigan on TV. It occurred to me that to people in the SW, this is as interesting as us watching Truro vs Exeter!!! However good the game it has no appeal.

ii) Perceptions and Investment - Linked to the above, the impression the game has on sky, blue chip sponsors - that the game is a northern peculiarity and still carries old perceptions. The word 'league' has little but negative connotations....just listen to how some in the southern based media say the word 'league' is derisory. Outside of our game, league is mimicked by many, trotting out eddie wearing / northern stereotypes,coal mines, a deprived northern regional game which is a poor relation to the true code of rugby (union).
This means there is limited appetite for investors, despite being a better product, because of poor image and the demographics & reach of who the game appeals to. Added to this, the Super league brand has been a failure, and lost to womans footbal, netball and fantasy football leagues, just like the Rugby WC, due to our ineptitude and failure to trademark it!
This is why we get Bachelors peas / Heinz big soup and free Papa Johns pizzas etc as some of our main sponsorship partners.

iii) Standard and quality of product - Inexorably linked to the two above, because of the salary cap, lack of investment, reduced interest in our game, the standard at the top is so poor that you have RL diehards like us, saying we are bored with the UK game.....what chance do we have of bringing in new fans?!

.....So what options to we have, in an increasingly competitive and international sporting landscape, to save the game from becoming an irrelevance in the northern hemisphere in the next 5-10 years? Unless we do something drastic, realistically I can only see the game back as part time in the not too distant future.

My solutions to our biggest problems would be as follows;

1. We desperately need another re-branding and breakaway. The brands we have are tired, tarnished and either carry negative connotations or are confused with things like womens football! League similarly carries negative connotations. I would rebrand the whole game as Rugby XIIIs (said as 'Rugby Thirteens') just as in france. Perhaps even restructuring the top division as 13 teams to support this.

2. As part of rebranding, existing clubs would also re-brand as a condition of their licence application.

Most selected for the top division would remain in current towns / stadiums with the same core fan base and identity, but namings would be tweaked to appeal to wider geographical areas. ie/ Liverpool Saints / Hull East Yorkshire / Wigan Lancs etc. Each team would play 1-2 home games away from their home base each year within their region. For example, Saints playing occasional games in Liverpool, but all but 1 or 2 still in St Helens.

This helps the game in two ways;
i) all teams grow and appeal to a greater amount of individuals, so ultimately attendances and following goes up
ii) but critically it also addresses all of the perception problems we see securing investment in the game....that we are a game played in small northern towns where only approx 4% of the population live.

So almost solves i) and ii) in one go!!

If existing SL teams did this alone, you could increase your catchment areas to cover upwards of 10 million people opposed to 2 million.
If you also introduce new and re-promoted clubs ie/ London SW Broncos and Newcastle or Tyne Thunder you increase that to somewhere in the region of 20-25 million people within the catchment area of a SL club...getting close to half of the population.
If you're an advertiser thats a hell of a lot more attractive.

Yes, it may leave the wakefields behind but they could reform in a vibrant British championship they would have a realistic chance of winning (which they will never have currently), playing against other teams at their level and with similar resources and fan base. They are much better playing at their level than holding those at the top back.

My reformed Super 13s would be;
Leeds Rhinos
Liverpool Saints
Manchester Fords (Salford rebrand on the same premise as Saints, with Fords being a throw to Salford) If Salford are too parochial and not brave enough then a new Manchester club.
Cheshire Wire (Warrington rebrand- same premise)
Lancashire Warriors or possibly Wigan Lancs (due to the strength of the Wigan brand)
Hull East Yorkshire
London SW Broncos
Tyne Thunder
Wales / Celtic Crusaders Back at Wrexham, where they were successful and actually starting to get crowds.
Catalan Dragons
Toulouse Olympique who will probably be in next year anyway
....plus one or two others selected on basis of applications....possibly Toronto or a new club.

Ask Sky and advertisers what they would pay for that.....Probably 2-3 times as much!!

Most of those clubs are already in place and ready to go, but with some smart re-brands you are appealing to huge areas of the country, rather than a few hundred thousands in deprived northern towns.

We then have a proper super league to drive the game forward....IMO the game could be twice as it is currently in 2-5 years.

Yes it takes a huge mindshift, yes you need to be brave, but do that and the game can survive.....carry on and we're dead in the water in 10 years, back to semi pro and amateur.
For me the writing is already on the wall, when our own fan base seems to have dropped to below 10k. Realistically that isn't sustainable and clubs like Wigan should be leading this breakaway with ambitious clubs who want to drive the game forward.

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I think Sky are a big part f the problem of the nothern stereotype, as long as you have O'Connor and Mac as co-commentators(?) with their overly nothern accents and mannerisms it will always portray the game as nothern. Add in the average to poor commentry and the constant shuffling of times/days shown how can anyone other than a die ahrd fan get on board.

Sadly the whole idea of re-branding will not happen - too mamy clubs will maintain the status quo until they go out of business.

The Super League franchises at the start in '96 with the insistence on grounds/accedemy etc was the way forward but was fairly rapidly diluted and diluted until we have the current situation - we don't even have a decent resrves setup at most clubs now.

The game needs visionaries prepared to shake thinsg up but they are totally absent in the game and with the current world situation I think it is unlikely any will emerge. Just surviving seems to be enough for a lot of clubs now and in recent years with no more ambition than that.

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They are selling 1,000 tickets for only 10 quid for the Saints game on Fri 22nd August

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Quote: exiled Warrior "I think Sky are a big part f the problem of the nothern stereotype, as long as you have O'Connor and Mac as co-commentators(?) with their overly nothern accents and mannerisms it will always portray the game as nothern. Add in the average to poor commentry and the constant shuffling of times/days shown how can anyone other than a die ahrd fan get on board.

Sadly the whole idea of re-branding will not happen - too mamy clubs will maintain the status quo until they go out of business.

The Super League franchises at the start in '96 with the insistence on grounds/accedemy etc was the way forward but was fairly rapidly diluted and diluted until we have the current situation - we don't even have a decent resrves setup at most clubs now.

The game needs visionaries prepared to shake thinsg up but they are totally absent in the game and with the current world situation I think it is unlikely any will emerge. Just surviving seems to be enough for a lot of clubs now and in recent years with no more ambition than that.'"


You're bang right on the commentary team. They need some good lead commentators who generate excitement.....the sky ones are appalling since Eddie. The only decent RL commentator we have is woods imo. If sky wanted to present the game in a positive way they'd keep Carney and Wells, shift the rest of them off and get someone like woods.

Its why i hoped we'd go to BT sports to reinvent the presentation....Unfortunately, because of many of the reasons above, sky have also now lost interest and just see us as a filler.

The whole Super League 96 thing was a fudge, because they cowed to pressure of the small minded and self interested who wanted to keep the game as it was.....so all we have 25 years on is a re-branded Stones Bitter Championship plus Catalan!! It achieved nothing!

We definitely needs some visionaries who are prepared to shake things up for the good of the game, and not be scared about what a few thousand in castleford or wakefield think. Yes, they will be scared about being left behind, but a viable British championship could fit nicely beneath the top tier. If we want to be serious about a modern credible professional sport, there isn't room for so many clubs in the heartlands at the top level, playing in shoddy stadiums in front of often less than 5k fans!

We're at a cross roads...which is why re-branding some of the existing top teams to represent wider areas works so well for me....you're effectively bolting on the Super 15s model onto existing clubs to increase the attractiveness and commercial viability of the sport. Yes it goes against some of the tradition and grain, but those clubs would still be Wigan / Warrington etc to us, they'd just be something different to new fans and commercial markets.

Its time to listen to our heads rather than our hearts, and be prepared to collectively do things which may not sit comfortably but which we recognise is for the overall good of the game.

....otherwise i honestly think the game will be in such a state in 10 years time that the only realistic option for top clubs like wigan, wire, leeds, saints to remain professional will be to defect to become union teams....essentially the death of the game!
Would rather do something bold and drastic now which gives us a chance, than become a semi-pro regional northern oddity in 10 years, where our top clubs are lost to play an inferior version of the sport!!

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SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled. For 27 - 0 you get a trophy For 75 - 0 you get sod all. Wigan had eight in a row Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg



Quote: MR FRISK "They are selling 1,000 tickets for only 10 quid for the Saints game on Fri 22nd August'"


Are you going to get of your arris and go to the game?
Or just whinge and moan like you normally do!!!

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Pleasantly surprised at the attendance tonight. What happened at the Wakefield game to attract 4000 less?

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Quote: FIOS "Pleasantly surprised at the attendance tonight. What happened at the Wakefield game to attract 4000 less?'"


There’s been a huge presence of children and parents from amateur clubs in the South Stand in the last two games. They’ve given clubs tickets to sell to kids for next to nothing I believe and that’s really bumped the crowds up. In the short term it’s very sensible and fair play to the club for trying to get people back in.

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Retro game for Leeds a week Wednesday with all tickets £10/£5 for adults/kids reflecting the price of a ticket in 1995.

It’s good work that. I know we want crowds to come back in numbers at full price but I think they’re going the right way here by firstly getting people in the ground for this season and hopefully they can then take some momentum in to the season ticket sales for 2022.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: NickyKiss "Retro game for Leeds a week Wednesday with all tickets £10/£5 for adults/kids reflecting the price of a ticket in 1995.

It’s good work that. I know we want crowds to come back in numbers at full price but I think they’re going the right way here by firstly getting people in the ground for this season and hopefully they can then take some momentum in to the season ticket sales for 2022.'"


I agree 100%

But

The moaning has started already !!!!
You can guess why!!! icon_rolleyes.gif

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Quote: Jukesays "I agree 100%

But

The moaning has started already !!!!
You can guess why!!!
You knew it would. It’s basically like a season ticket holder saying ‘I’m happy to let the club wither as long as I get my value for money’.

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Quote: NickyKiss "Retro game for Leeds a week Wednesday with all tickets £10/£5 for adults/kids reflecting the price of a ticket in 1995.

It’s good work that. I know we want crowds to come back in numbers at full price but I think they’re going the right way here by firstly getting people in the ground for this season and hopefully they can then take some momentum in to the season ticket sales for 2022.'"


i've just posted something similar on Warriors fans

Midweek game, no school following morning for the kids. Appreciate that some if not all adults are working and may need to get up for work etc, but ideal situation as we need to get people back into the ground. i would go as far as giving every local kid playing for a club a free ticket & £10 adult, and admit them all into the north stand and fill that with local rugby league playing kids and parents

There are plenty of floating fans out there, whether they have had a season ticket or not previously doesnt matter, just try to attract them back to the game and hopefully convert them into season ticket sales next season

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I've managed to talk two of my mates into coming. They are exactly the type of casual fans that's the club are looking to attract.

Well done to the club. You won't please everyone, so it's all good.

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I think it’s a great idea to be honest. Get all those nostalgic fans who’ve lost touch interested in coming back and bring along new fans with the cheap prices. A short term loss financially for a long term gain

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Just about to book South Stand tickets for the Leeds game. Is it un allocated seating or will we actually be sat in the seat numbers we book? Just checking as there's a large group of us going and want to make sure we're together

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     Mens Super League XXVIII-R17
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Sun 7th Jul
SL
15:00
Salford-Hull FC
Fri 12th Jul
SL
20:00
LondonB-Castleford
SL
20:00
Warrington-Leeds
SL
20:00
Warrington-St.Helens
Sat 13th Jul
SL
15:00
Hull FC-Hull KR
SL
00:00
Leigh-Huddersfield
SL
17:30
Catalans-Salford
Wed 17th Jul
SOO
11:05
Queensland-New South Wales
Sat 17th Aug
SL
18:00
Warrington-Leeds
SL
15:30
Wigan-St.Helens
SL
13:00
Hull FC-LondonB
Sun 18th Aug
SL
13:00
Leigh-Salford
SL
15:30
Catalans-Hull KR
SL
18:00
Huddersfield-Castleford
Sun 27th Oct
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 2nd Nov
MINT2024
14:30
England M-Samoa M
Sat 6th Jul
NRL 18 Canterbury13-12NZ Warriors
NRL 18 Wests28-40Melbourne
NRL 18 NQL Cowboys20-22Manly
SL 16 Leeds17-16LondonB
WSL2024 7 LeedsW6-16St.HelensW
WSL2024 7 FeatherstoneW0-50WiganW
Fri 5th Jul
NRL 18 Cronulla16-20Gold Coast
NRL 18 Brisbane6-14Penrith
SL 16 St.Helens6-8Castleford
SL 16 Warrington48-0Huddersfield
SL 16 Wigan24-6Leigh
CH 14 Sheffield28-0Halifax
Thu 4th Jul
NRL 18 Parramatta16-32Souths
Sun 30th Jun
CH 13 Barrow0-36Wakefield
CH 13 Dewsbury12-38Bradford
CH 13 Halifax38-18Whitehaven
CH 13 Widnes16-24Batley
CH 13 York10-18Sheffield
L1 13 Cornwall10-16Crusaders
L1 13 Newcastle10-44Midlands
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 15 427 170 257 26
St.Helens 16 429 170 259 22
Warrington 16 406 213 193 22
Hull KR 15 383 201 182 22
Salford 15 295 288 7 20
Catalans 15 288 220 68 18
 
Leeds 16 291 286 5 18
Huddersfield 16 298 365 -67 12
Leigh 15 270 250 20 11
Castleford 16 246 435 -189 9
Hull FC 15 198 474 -276 4
LondonB 16 156 615 -459 2
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 13 486 142 344 26
Sheffield 14 382 217 165 22
Bradford 13 341 218 123 18
Toulouse 12 332 174 158 16
Widnes 13 315 245 70 15
Featherstone 13 330 283 47 12
 
Batley 13 205 286 -81 12
Doncaster 13 237 325 -88 11
York 14 285 293 -8 10
Whitehaven 13 266 358 -92 10
Halifax 14 270 405 -135 10
Barrow 12 203 339 -136 10
Swinton 13 260 332 -72 8
Dewsbury 14 168 419 -251 2
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