I have to agree with you 100% on this post.

This forum was filled with real anxiety and angst at some of our top players at the club leaving to go to RU and the NRL going back just a couple of years. People were speaking about the player drain, how the salary cap was unworkable and how playing for Wigan put you in this huge shop window to be picked off by the riches of Australia or the other code. It probably wasn't everybody but there was a general feeling of comfort when it emerged players like Mossop, Sam T and Joel were likely to return in the future. They were sold for fees and people were happy when these players returned costing less to bring back than the fees we received for them. It seemed like great business. I'm not picking on Mossop as such but just using him as an example because it obviously didn't work out for him and he has since moved on.

I'd like to think bringing some new blood into the club either via an attack coach or a new head coach that players like Joel and Sam T would be given a real shake and we would see something like their old form. My concern with Joel is I actually felt sorry for him leaving the field against Wakefield and that these injuries just won't go away.

The only player I raised an eyebrow at re-signing was Tommy in place of Matty Smith but even then he and Budgie re-signing was rightly met with a warm response (especially Burgess). I hoped Tommy would feature sparingly at hooker with Sam and even Shorrocks playing at half back and Escare at 1. I don't think this was ever the plan sadly given he was handed the 7 jersey and injuries haven't helped. A few fans who sit near me were calling for Matty Smith to leave for most of last season because they believed his passing was woeful, his kicking was poor and his goalkicking was atrocious and how Tommy would improve us in 2017. Tommy's form at 7 this year has really highlighted their foolishness but as this poster I've quoted says hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I don't speak for other people, only myself. So my opinion on the disastrous old boys signing strategy has nothing to do with what other people were thinking on this forum.

I'm nostalgic and was happy to see them all come back but ultimately most haven't worked out. I think Burgess is carrying a couple of knocks and a stone too much in weight, that when rectified will certainly mean that's the right call. The San Tomkins move is one that could also still bear fruit. He's been pretty good these past few months (bar the last two weeks) but clearly he needs to move in to the halves as he's not fast enough to play full back anymore.

The other moves though (Leuluai, Joel, Mossop etc) have been worthless. They've probably cost us a lot of money and they've not added enough to the team. I feel a little for Joel, he looks pretty much finished with his knees imo (injured again yesterday) and that's robbed him of any chance of making a decent impact.

Apologies in advance for a bit of an 'I told you so' post. The writing was on the wall with Tomkins long before he arrived back in the country. I said at the time it was announced he was heading back to Wigan that he'd turn out to be a very expensive flop (which resulted in a fair few of your lot biting and claiming he'd be back to his best). You could tell from his form in the NRL that he'd lost some speed, strength and bottle - that arrogant swagger had gone as he wasn't able to run rings around terrible defences in the NRL, and he's never recovered from that.

A more worrying point in general is how far back yourselves, us (Leeds), Saints and Wire have slipped in terms of standards over the last few years. I've been saying for a couple of months that I think Leeds can actually win the comp, and whilst I'll very much enjoy it if they do, with the standard of the current Leeds team, it would be an absolute embarrassment to the game over here.

Well it clearly didn't do the right thing in that they have all so far, failed. Though as I said elsewhere Sam T and Burgess still have a chance to prove otherwise. And it is not hindsight if you think the policy blinded them from looking at other players or properly considering even if we needed any of them back. I think IL wanted to prove his strategy of getting players to sign a bit of paper that said they will return worked. I bet when these players became available he was delighted to be able to put this policy into action and there was no way they were not going to get signed.

When he first came up with the idea I thought it was daft because I assumed they would all be successful, earning a fortune and so we had seen the last of them in a Wigan shirt again. If they had been and yet had returned in top form it would have been a no-brainer to sign them but every single one bar TL came back under a cloud but we still signed them.

Hopefully this is a lesson learned and the club doesn't guarantee players who leave an easy way out and furthermore doesn't rush to give them one.

I think with the underperforming players, some are victims of our negative approach. Stick Tomkins and Budgie in that Cas side, with the way Cas have played and they would have both had an amazing season. It's the collective that has worked brilliant for Cas, Powell has a way he wants to play, the players enjoy it and so they buy into it 100%, one because its enjoyable, and two because it works. Our lot seem to half buy into it, probably because they're bored as fook and they know they're limiting their own options playing the same few plays each set. I'd be embarrassed to be that predictable and know how boring it is to watch.

When John Donahy was at Wigan, we were struggling. It was widely rumoured that the players, led by Shaun Edwards decided enough was enough and just ignored him and went on to do their own thing which was to throw the ball about and run teams ragged. They knew they could build up a massive lead and if they got tired before the end it wouldn't matter because they were so far ahead on the scoreboard.

Dorahy won the league and Challenge Cup but was sacked at the end of the season. (1992 I think it was).

Supposedly on the coach back from Wembley after we had won the Cup!

As to the players rebelling, not chance of that these days. Too many owe their careers to Wane and/or are his mate.

I don't think he'll thank them for what happened last weekend.

I'm not saying that was a rebellion, but it certainly reeked of 'we're not even going to try' ... and they must know that he's the one who ultimately will carry the can.

It did remind me of the infamous loss to Cas in the Regal Trophy (or it may have still been the JPS back then, can't remember) which if I recall correctly was also part of the Dorahy stint as coach. However I was meaning rebel as in chuck Wane's tactics out of the window and basically ignore him as Edwards & Co did.

No, you're right. I can't see any possibility of that happening.

Might just be my imagination but I'm convinced they did it last year at Wire after Ben Flower was sent off.
The team just seemed to say sod it and played like we all want to see them play.
Pretty sure after the match Tony Smith said his players didn't know how to handle it because they were all set up to defend against our usual tactics.

I agree mate. It was like the shackles were removed when Flower went off and same again for a few weeks after.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I only believe there are a few changes needed to improve.

Areas which need improving:

Sam's lost his pace. It's not coming back. When pace is gone, it's gone
Tommy is a terrible 7. Can't think of a worse 7 in SL. No game management, no kicking, no breaks the list goes on.
Pack, namely forwards need more grunt, more meters per game.
Lack of a kicker.

To improve:

Move Sam to 7. Looks deadly in the line. Can pass, and kick and has a great rugby brain.
Move Escare to FB, pace to burn, looked a threat attacking out-wide.
Escare to kick.
Retire Tommy, free up his cap space.
Move on FPN

Use the available cap to bring in a forward.

Other options:
Bring in Michael Gordon. At a loose end as Roosters are bring in Tedesco. Older, but still outstanding and is a great kicker.
Move on Joel Tomkins. Arguably Ben Flower. New blood needed in the pack.

I'd like like to see another centre. Competition for places is a must.