I think this just further underlines the uselessness of stats.

Whatever the percentages say, the Cas fixture was a signal game because it demonstrated beyond doubt what more and more of us have been starting to suspect, namely that we are not much of a team.

Whether that's down to the players or coaching staff, or both - I suspect the latter - it's quite evident that we are fine, when fully fit, to trundle on among the also-rans, and occasionally (very occasionally!) hand out a hammering to the lesser lights, but at the end of the table where we have ambitions to be, we are very, very second rate.

Cas did us effortlessly without even being motivated, when Wigan literally had everything to play for.

It was beyond pathetic, and in many ways - despite the occasional good stuff we've shown since the returns from injury - it's the only game of 2017 that matters thus far, because it's the one that has finally clarified things.

I hope Cas win tonight and that we beat Wakey. But I won't be upset if either or both of those matches go against us. What can't happen, won't - so whatever goes on this weekend, Wigan will NOT win the Grand Final, and would most likely be humiliated again, this time on a much bigger stage. I suspect it would be better for all concerned if the season ended now and we got on with the very pressing matter of doing what we can to reconstruct our excuse for a team.

I wasn't going to renew this year but a bit like yourself I thought TL back, ST to play more and to be honest I was just wishing that we could get better.

I just get frustrated that some issues have been poking us in the eye for several years e.g. kicking and the lack of a front row but the club seems oblivious to such small issues.

I still want them to win. I could never see me wanting them to lose irrespective of the style however, the insular attitude and sheer snarling boring nature of play is just draining my love and enthusiasm for the club. Rightly or wrongly I think that only thing that will force some sort of change is hitting the club in the pocket which where I am in terms of a season ticket purchase. Sad but there you go.

You are supporters of the biggest club in Super League. Stop whining and buy a ticket.

You sir are IL and I claim my £5

How do you know people haven't bought tickets?

What has Marshall ever done to you? It's his first season as a regular 1st team player and he's scored 23 tries in 24 games. I think that counts are more than couple of good attacking games. I thought his confidence took a knock when Wane did his usual, over thought it and dropped him but whatever, to write him off so quickly is a bit rash to say the least.

I don't think adding an attacking coach will make one jot of difference. The whole playing philosophy of the team stems from Wane. How they train, how they play, who plays - everything. The idea Wane will change all this - and it ALL does need changing would effectively require him to take a back seat and let his new attacking coach run the show. Not going to happen.

He has done absolutely nothing to me and i want the lad to do well. It's just my opinion. History is littered with wingers with brilliant try scoring records who ended up in the lower leagues. There is a lot more to being a winger than being fast and brilliant from 5 yards. His defence, positional play and confidence under the high ball are way off. Im sure he could improve on positional play and high balls but i dont see him bulking up anywhere near enough to be a solid defender. I hope he proves me wrong but i dont think he will.

Hence he won the Albert Goldthorpe Rookie of the Year? He's had an incredible first season and with the right coaching could go on to much more.

It's a fantastic achievement for him and he is to be congratulated but i only comment on things i see with my own eyes not what i am told by the Sky Sports contingent. It's an opinion, that's all, One i hope i am wrong about but i really, really don't think i will be. The rookie of the year is a medal decided on by who the Sky Sports team are buttering up at the time. Max Jowitt got it last season, never heard from him since, Andre Savelio the season before, He has done nowt either. For me, he isn't the best rookie at Wigan let alone the league.

My vote for young player went to Tom Davies who for me is miles ahead of all the players nominated for the Albert Goldthorpe. My point is that to write him off already I'd far too premature. I'd be interested to know what u thought after he scored 4 v Wire at their place on his full debut?

Tom Davies has had a great year. Marshall has real pace and if harnessed properly is a potential game winner.
I think Davies has been our best player in 2017

Best post I have read on here in a long time.

Absolutely spot on.

The same as everyone else naturally. But we have seen a lot more of him since. I am not knocking him i am merley stating a fact. I thought Ainscough was the business when he first came on the scene too. I think i have done it to death now but i have made it clear what i personally think he needs to do and that on stats Davies has made less errors and made a huge amount of metres more etc. If the league are saying Marshall is better than it shows that they just look at the one statistic. Try's