If you actually lived in the world of Wigan fans, you'd know that most of us exist in a state of constant nervousness and uncertainty. But you don't, you live in the world of "Wigan fans according to St Helens fans", where we are mostly villainous, and you lot - you in particular, I expect - are mostly righteous.

The fact you take exception to one or two Wigan fans demonstrating a bit of bravado (on their own forum!) to such an extent that you then come out with comments like "arrogance even by Wigan fan standards" says exactly the opposite - about you at least - as does your unwillingness later to admit that this was some kind of general-purpose insult.

It's pathetic, but I suspect you've achieved what you really came here for - to derail a thread about Wigan's chances this season. So well done on that score.

Not at all. My intention wasn't to detail anything. I see that it would fit the agenda of certain people on here if I was made out to be a troll derailing a thread but that isn't the case. I have noth done or said anything pathetic. The only pathetic thing on here is the xenophobic nature of some of you.

My intention was in keeping with the predictions title and was simply to point out that it's quite arrogant to suggest you are far superior to all of your rivals. You will also notice a Wigan fan agreed with me but surprisingly nobody minds that. It's fine when a Wigan fan says a Wigan fan is arrogant, but when a Saints fan says it he's being pathetic and derailing a thread, apparently.

My post wasn't aimed at all Wigan fans; if you've taken it that way then you've taken it wrong. I have family members and close friends who are Wigan fans and none of them are particularly arrogant so I wouldn't make that generalisation. Similarly I know many Saints fans who are complete buffoons.

I liked that. Very true I think.

I do think that Yellow Giraffe has a point about arrogance. I sometimes think that Wigan fans (and I include myself) can veer between arrogance and self laceration. - (I find these days that Saints fans on the whole are rather better than Warrington and Cas to name two sets of fans who can get on my particular wick).

Anyhow (as if to prove the point) I still think that Wigan have the best squad in the comp, but disagree that it will be a disaster if we don't win anything, in sport you just never know.

I'm as pessimistic as anyone usually but even I think we will at least get to the GF.

Yes, of course.

It's your own fault if you're insulted by insults. In fact you are xenophobes (there's a fashionably self-righteous word these days) for not accepting that I am right.

Also, how dare you slap me down when you didn't slap down so-and-so. I mean, it's not like I've got a track-record for causing trouble on here.

I myself am not xenophobic (that sanctimonious word again). In fact, some of my best friends are ... (uh-oh).

What on earth are you going on about? When have I demanded that people accept I am right? Or are you just making things up to suit your argument because I haven't actually done anything wrong?! I have simply said that there is a lot of arrogance on this thread. That's all. (Some Wigan fans agree by the way, fancy that?!)

Yes I do find it a hypocritical that it's OK for a Wigan fan to say it but not a Saints fan. Hence the xenophobia comment. As for my track record, that's probably the biggest myth on these boards. I have had many good, reasonable debates with the likes of aboveusonlypie and Nickykiss in the past. One particular Moderator doesn't like the fact I sometimes disagree with folk and likes to make a song and dance about me and that's why people fall in line like sheep and believe I am some sort of serial trouble maker.

As for the last sentence, I am not even sure what you're trying to imply to be honest. My point was I would never generalise all Wigan fans as a certain thing, as they aren't all bad, far from it. Nor would I claim all Saints fans are right because some of them, on these boards in particular, are idiots and that's why I hardly post on here anymore.

The ones on redvee, as you know, were tongue in cheek in response to the constant negativity on there.

In all seriousness I've predicted Saints, Wigan, Hull and Warrington top 4 in any order.
Leeds and Castleford next.
Then Catalans.
then the remaining 5 all battling for the final spot in the 8 with Widnes and Leigh the weakest 2 from those 5 I think.

I'd like to think Saints will make at least one final but a lot depends on injuries towards the back end of the year. If someone had a gun to my head I'd say Saints v Wigan final.

Saints won't even get top 4 never mind a grand final

At the risk of incurring the wrath of YG and sounding 'arrogant' I agree with you KR. I think Saints are a really bad side. It only takes a couple of injuries to, say Amor and Walmsley and they are sitting ducks. It's not arrogance, i just think Saints are particularly crap in terms of 'challenging' and of course i want it to happen too because after reading so many insulting remarks about us on Redvee (personal and general) i hope they fail at everything and i don't care how that sounds.

Strange you should pick at our props as being vulnerable should we get an injury or two. I'd actually say prop is our strongest position. As well as Amor and Walmsley we have Douglas and Walker coming in who both had great 4 Nations (Walker named in the top 2 props from all 4 sides). We also have Luke Thompson who along with Ryan Sutton who I've said many times I rate highly is one of the best young forwards in Super League. So prop is an odd one for you to pull us up on. I certainly wouldn't swap those 5 for any other set of 5 from any Super League club. Add Roby to that along with Greenwood and Knowles and I don't think there's a better pack.

However, had you said an injury to any of our 3/4 line will see us struggle then I'd agree. Our options after our first choice 1-5 are either terrible (Owens/Peyroux) or untried (Grace/Wellington). We are also vulnerable at half back as we may see over the next few weeks.

To suggest we are a "really bad side" is obviously a little OTT but this is a Wigan board so it's pointless getting into that debate! Also to suggest we are crap at challenging, after being several ludicrous calls off a Grand Final last year, 2 semis the year before and champions the year before that is all a bit of a stretch of your imagination I think. I'm sure that constitutes "challenging" by anyone's standards. Wishful thinking on your part maybe