Pretty much how I feel, however when I say it out loud it sounds absurd after winning the grand final.

There's two issues, one is that SL as a spectacle is poor, it's been the most forgettable season I can remember. That said the very low standard has enabled us, with all the injuries, with an attack that barely outscores our points conceded to finish second and win the GF. What I don't want is for us to use the overall low standard of SL to paper over where we have lacked this year. I desperately hope we can stay relatively injury free to see if Wane can get us firing and turn us into a serious attacking threat and entertain while doing it. I say this because we have struggled to break down good defences for much longer than the last 6 months. We've been predictable and over reliant on certain players.

Wane has worked wonders with our defence, the team spirit and willingness to work for each other is phenomenal. That said it's 50% of the equation, the fact that was enough this year should not mask the fact that even with the injuries, we were abysmal for way too much of this season and the potential improvement is massive, it should be and has to be a priority to fix.

I'm pretty sure Sam regrets his comment now, not the smartest thing to say and he does seem to bite on Twitter occassionally. I don't think there was any malice intended, but fair play to Bilko if it fired up the team to win a championship!

Sam shouldnt be saying those kind of things imo, he could have easily sent bilko a private message without the world seeing

On subject, i dont think micky mac's tweet on sat was the most appropriate either - talk about giving wire motivation for the next time they play us!

I think he can be pretty proud of himself. As a normal fan just making a heat of the moment comment it must be crazy to think that the side has clearly used that as a big motivating factor in winning the big one. It's probably our finest trophy victory in decades.

Well done Bilko I say.

The week I said that three articles appeared in local paper blasting "critics", which was fair enough, but find it bizarre it's been dragged up still a over six weeks on. Anyway my point was more that Wigan could actually have rumbled on lost to both Hull and Warrington (after a poor July and August) and still won two games to be champions. In hindsight now they didn', which is nice.

People want the quality of rugby to be high all season and yet tell me that the LLS is worthless. Which is it? Do the team try to peak for the playoff and GF or do they aim to play perfect rugby all season and win the LLS?

It seems to me that Wane and the staff got it right, just as Leeds have done in pretty much all of their GF winning seasons (two from 5th place remember). If we are going to criticise the team and staff them at least keep it consistent and think about what you really want.

If people don't want to watch rugby league then don't buy a season ticket, but this season has seen plenty of brilliant games (the Hull KR/Salford game was just fantastic). Wigan won at the death so many times it is untrue. In Waney's first season we won by 50+ so many times and walked the LLS but ultimately lost the playoffs to Leeds. All the experts on here said it was because we hadn't won enough tight games and the team wasn't battle hardened. The league was poor. Now because the league is competitive and Wigan have to scrap for every victory, often with 10 players missing, people are still complaining about what's on offer.

It seems to me that Waney can't win with some people.

That pretty much sums it up for me. It's a sport where peaking at the right time is what matters. The rest of the season you simply have to do enough to put you in a position to give you a chance.

Just a thought. This season is the first time Wigan haven't been to Florida pre-season training for a while. Could that have had an effect on the poor ball skills particularly early on in the season, but also toughened them up physically and mentally for the grind to the end. It may be one to ask Wane, Rads and Mark Bitcon.

There's peaking, and looking clueless, we needed the in-between for more of the season.

I don't know whether you are harsh or provocative or both.

Case in point, in the middle of June we won a game at Widnes 7-0. But we had Nick Gregson, an Under 19 second rower, playing at Stand Off for heavens sake. Why would you criticise a team for looking 'clueless' under such circumstances. It was noticeable when Sam got in the team how the team looked much better, but fans are busy re writing history on that now that Sam is public enemy No 1. In fact around that time we gave debuts to Bretherton, Wells, Gregson, Shorrocks, Waterworth and Higginson - all of whom looked pretty much out of their depth (understandably).

When Wane said that you don't know the half of it - why don't you believe him? How can you practise attacking moves if everyone is injured???

A 'dislike' tinged with visceral loathing.

At present they are turning circles trying to excuse themselves for some of their comments earlier this season. One or two, meanwhile, are standing proud on those opinions, insisting the OT win had little, if anything, to do with Wane.

We all had concerns, but bare-faced churlishness never looks good.

the attack did not work because our basic ball skills were beneath that of an under 8's team. Balls from dummy half were all over the place. Passes in general play were awful and that broke down the attack. it had nothing to do with who or who was not in the squad. they are all professional rugby players and they should be able to pass a ball properly. just watch back some of the older games especially widnes and you will get my drift. As for ST he has been a journey man all season who in my humble opinion has added nothing but petulance on the field and nothing in skill. he looked something like when we went down to 12 men at Warrington. ST needs some serious man management skills as clearly has no awareness of how his behavior on and off the field effects those around him. We won the GF and that is great but as I have already posted I expect to watch good level of rugby all year. 2016 has substandard across the board, I have never turned a SL game off SKY and I have done this year for the first time. I have not gone to Wigan games for the first time this year as did not want to watch the dross were serving up. If that is something you are willing to accept that is your choice, I will by a GF ticket and be done. If too many others do that and I am not alone then attendance drop, salary cap spend reduces and we have a problem.

Yeah right.

I don't think anyone doesn't believe him. Why wouldn't we?

But I thought part of the culture we were suppose to be implementing into the squad was a style of play throughout the age groups. So that when the young lads step up, they do so into a system in which they are comfortable.

I fully understand the injuries this year played their part. Again, I do not know anyone who is suggesting otherwise. It seems to me like you are justifying why we had (up to that point) had an 'awful awful' season. In doing so you must concede that very people you are trying to prove wrong, you are in fact supporting their argument.

There have been many studies into this, and owners will always favour win maximisation over utility (enjoyment) maximisation, on the assumption that more wins leads to more profit due to more fans. I would say the evidence of Wigan over the previous 5 or 6 years does not necessarily back this up. We may well be making more money in the short term through winning (I haven't investigated this whatsoever) but the fan numbers are declining substantially. I believe our fans value both winning and utility fairly equally, thus a poor product on the field, no matter how successful will not lead to more fans.

For someone like Man Utd I would say they are definitely in the category of wins over utility. The fans who attend games may moan at the 1-0 wins, but the worldwide support base doesn't care too much about performance, just the prestige of winning.

As a fan I think you certainly have the right to make a judgment of how much enjoyment you get out of the money you invest into the club. And someone who get paid by that money does not really have the right to tell you if your judgment is right or wrong. For one person this is a profession, or the other this is a hobby for which they pay a fair price!

The only way our difference of opinion could be resolved is if we sit down with a pot of tea and biscuits and go through the season, I'll explain what I class as clueless rugby and you can try to explain the reasons for it. I'm talking about failing at the basics, not failing at open expansive rugby, I'm talking basic rugby league, 101 stuff.