Personally think we're missing Deacon more than Harris, but hard to know who was really calling the shots in attack...

For me, you've got to ask yourself a question.

Why would a Wigan lad with a coaching job at Wigan leave to coach in Union?

It could be money but it seems over the past few years anyone who's become assistant or near to those lofty heights have left, It would be good to know why and see what happens to John Winder over the next 12 months.

As a player he would be an improvement.

In all animal species the "Alpha Male" always reacts in the same way when he feels a threat to his dominance, he gets rid of the threat.

It's not a matter pf getting a few bodies back. Surely, for a start, we must at any rate replace Smith? He's never been great, but he often used to be good, and I just can't see him ever being good again. In a Wigan shirt, anyway. Arguing about the quality or predictability of the plays seems almost academic when they are being executed so poorly that there's no chance of success anyway.

Wigan aren't the issue, the league is! We can't compete with Uunion and the NRL and therefore the best players are all going elsewhere and the quality drops. In terms of where the leagues at our squad is actually a very good one.

To sit here and say we're boring, our attack isn't functioning and so on is correct but surely people don't believe that will still be the case when we get all of our players back on board? It may still be a structured approach which we will play with but once we've got our attacking threats back in their correct positions and the team is settled we'll be absolutely fine!

I'm in agreement that we need to tweek a few things for next year (I'm in the camp that says Smiths time is up) but to read some posts you'd think we'd played with a full team all year and still hasn't been attacking well. We just need to be patient.

+1

Lots of calls for an attacking coach and it's the same over on our board. But isn't that what's making the game predictable, both for spectators and defences? It seems to me like an increasing number of teams rely on a fairly limited repertoire of well-rehed moves. Individual flair is the missing ingredient, not further coaching.

I get what you're saying but teams still need attacking moves for something to fall back on, call it a plan A. I'd also like to see teams play off the cuff to at certain points of the game, I enjoy the free play ruling as this allows that to happen.

Maybe incorporate the free play to more offences other than knock on.

Off the cuff rugby does have its risks (more mistakes likely) and as we are quite a structured team it stands out that we have only a couple of players that can play to this rule. Sam Tomkins & Gelling.

Gelling has been a breath of fresh air with some of his rugby (nobody knows what he's doing including him). Sometimes he's created or scored tries from it, other times he's bombed as many or put out errors in our own twenty.

We do need these types of players though as we look to them when we go into the final stages of a match losing by a couple. Gelling to Manfredi looping pass to win it against Salford springs to mind!

At times the attack looked as clueless last season including in the GF where we let Leeds off the hook. It didn't look good this season before the injuries kicked in.

Unless Sam T is the answer I don't think there is much evidence to suggest it will function much better when the players return.

The other thing is the club has known how long the players injured are out for and for most it is more than short term yet is trying to play the same attack with players who can't execute it and/or are unfamiliar with each other.

For this attack to work it must be drilled an executed to perfection. Even before you ask the question is our current best first 17 capable of doing this (I don't think it is) it's not reasonable to expect that to occur with the disruption to the side, yet we still keep sticking to plan A.

Our attack was fine for the majority of last year. It will be better this year IMO once Tomkins and co are back and we're settled because Tomkins is better then Bowen and far more suited to put style of play (one which was pretty much adopted to fit in around him). We've got Gelling and Manfredi to come back who've been devastating already and will link up superbly with Tomkins. We have George Williams who's a year older and again is another who'll benefit from playing with Tomkins (and will actually benefit from the rest he's getting) and put back row will be outstanding when all the options are back in there.

Optimistic? Maybe but I don't see too many better 17's knocking about then the one we should be able to get on the field in a month or so's time.

As Wane would say 'I'm not stressed'.

Me either, and it's a great time for the "Misery Mafia", so, happiness all around..

I usually agree with you Nicky but this time I'm nowhere near as optimistic as yourself.
I thought we were poor and boring last season and the early part of this season I thought we had gone even worse after the departure of our only strike players namely Bowen and Burgess.
ST will have to play his A game from match 1 and continue to do so for every game he plays to give us even an inkling of a stepped change.
I personally can't believe that we do any work with the ball. We can't or won't pass, play so flat it's obvious we have no intention of trying to backup or look for offloads, offer zero options when we are in the opposition 20 metre zone other than a high kick to the wings. It's been the same way for a season and a half so unless ST works the oracle I just don't see where the improvement will come from.
I could cope with a conservative approach if we had a decent pack who could make good yards but apart from Farrell & Bateman(and he is very quiet this year) we have no forwards who can do the hard yards and none seem capable other than 15 minute cameos of dreary 5 yard gains and 3 men tackles then shuffle off because they look shattered or perhaps more accurately they were always going to be spelled after 15 minutes come what may. Tautai has improved significantly this year yet never does more than 20 minute stints - if he is in form why can't he complete a full 80 minutes?
I just find our whole demeanour and approach dreary, listless, predictable and joyless. I'm sick of hearing of toughness, middles and "the Wigan way". What the hell does the Wigan way mean? We will lose a few games over the next few weeks and these terms will be churned out repeatedly as if saying things will change everything.
I've thought this way for nearly 2 years so this isn't a reaction to a few recent losses or the absence of a few players. I've followed the club for nearly 50 years and have seen far far worse teams but I can't recall previously ever being bored rigid watching a game.
I sincerely hope your upbeat outlook is delivered and that I'm way over the top but I won't hold my breath.

I'm somewhere in between itchy and Nicky as usual. I'm not at all convinced that everything will be OK once we get players back, based on the fact that our attack has been patchy and poorly executed for a long time now. I see "Wigan-style plays" executed by NRL sides and still be very effective, But, and it's a big but, that's if executed perfectly, with each pass hitting the mark so players don't have to pause or stretch behind them to reach the ball. Of course having ST, Gells and Williams back will help enormously, but I can't help but also worry whether, after such a long time out, ST will ever be quite the same player again.