We looked clueless when near the line, which is exactly why I'd pair Hampshire with Williams.

They're both skillful, off the cuff players who like to attack the line and have pace.

Well we had Tomkins and Green in 2013 so he was always 3rd playmaker. I'm not suggesting he was carried but he's never been a dominant half and never will be.

The worst thing is that he hasn't improved at all even following an England tour and playing in numerous finals and big games. If anything he's regressed a lot. Compare his kicking in the CCF 2013 to last night for example. I don't get how a player can just lose a skill set like that.

I think he was equally as important as Green in 2013 in both the CC (far more so in that game) and GF.
I don't think he's just lost it I really think it's a confidence thing. He has had some good games this year, I think he played very well in the semi.

The whole side has been patchy this season but I think fans should stick by a player who has proven in the past that they're good enough. I personally think Micky Mc has had a poor season but nobody lambasts him for it. These are human beings not computer game characters, every player goes through a rough patch. I think Wigan fans have become so entitled that they expect perfection from everybody. I have no doubt that he'll do the job for us next season.

Lots of good points here..

It really wasn't a knock-on. Watch it back without the emotion of it bein your team in a couple of weeks time and you'll realise.

The ball did come out of his hands forward, but it didn't then hit the floor or an opposition player, it hit his own leg (which isn't a knock on, it's the same as juggling it in your own hands) and then goes sideways/even backwards off his leg.

It really was fine.

Joel Tomkins made many stupid/chancy one handed passes and daft flicky offloads that didn't come off. I thought that was too naïve for Grand Final play (much like Wire have been guilty of in big games, not looking after possession enough). There were very very few chancy plays like this in the NRL GF last week. You can't do that sort of thing in the biggest games.

I disagree that he was as important as Green in 2013. Like I said he was 3rd playmaker behind Green and Tomkins. Hell even Iain Thornely set up more tries IIRC.

McIlorum has had plenty of lambasting on here. He's probably the least creative 9 in the league but he's in there for his defence and steady ball play. Smith is in the side for his kicking and organising, both of which have been non-existent for 18 months.

I don't think it's anything to do with entitlement or expecting perfection. He's one of our most experienced players now; he should be commanding the forwards around and kicking us around the park but you don't even notice him on the pitch most games. I just can't believe he's short of confidence.

Oh give over you're just being obtuse now, to suggest he was that unimportant in 2013.

Hardly non-existant, like I said he had a good game in the semi and has had other good games this year but people have completely ignored those.

He does organise and command the players around the pitch, you see him screaming and shouting orders every match. Once again yes he's been off form this season, every player goes through a bad patch. He'll do the job for us next year I'm sure.

You can't believe he's short of confidence? The media and general RL fans have been calling him mediocre and 'not good enough' for years and now his own fans are, I think that would knock anybodies confidence, especially after he's already proven his worth.

I'm not one for scapegoats, but I think Smith has run his race now.

For all the comments about his long kicking game keeping him in the side - does it offer anything like the kind of consistency you'd expect from one of the 2 best teams in the league? For every kick that pins a team down with a scrum 10 metres out, we get ones like on Saturday where he finds the full back on the full on the 3rd tackle.

For me, he's simply not consistently good enough for Wigan, his game fluctuates far too often between good and dreadful.

And this is the jist of it. Matty can be good on his day, less than average on others. That's no use to a team with title ambitions. We need much more from the halves than we have had this last season.

I think that Matty will be one of those players who you miss when he's not there. His kicking game and organisational ability give Wigan some stability at half back that wasn't there when Thomas played scrum half (for all of Thomas's ability).

Of course we need to improve. I'm sure that Matty will be the first to acknowledge that he hasn't had the best of seasons. There are reasons for that. I am backing him to be back to his best next season. Let's lay off the guy in the meantime. He does nothing but give his all for Wigan.

There's no doubting the guys attitude or passion and for all the talk of change, he's going to be here next year and will again be our starting 7.

How do we get more out of him? The first job is to get our forwards dominating more games. They've turned up at the back end of the season and blitzed all comers on the metres made front (including Leeds on Saturday) but it felt as though Smith was already down on confidence and form and he didn't fully turn that around.

Sam Tomkins play making abilities could help him out also. Matty Biwen was a bit more off the cuff and the departure of Green on top of Sam's the previous year left too much for Smith to make up.

I'd certainly like to see Hampshire given his opportunity in the halves but realistically I know it'll be Smith so we've got to get on with it.

I don't think that's enough, to be honest. No one would question his willingness to work and his desire to win matches. But we've looked weak in the attack zone all year, including in the Grand Final. Too many close in chances were simply kicked away. Too often we couldn't break down even desperate defences. In addition, his field kicking leaves a lot to be desired. Too many turnovers occur on or near halfway, because Matty hasn't pushed the opposition back far enough.

But I do agree, we'll miss him if he isn't here ... unless we've replaced him with someone better. And that's always got to be the bottom line.

Smith doesn't have a good kicking game though.

He does from distance IMO. That like everything else was off for him on Saturday but it's been good recently.

His defence has gone back for me, he's taking on the line even less then usual and generally looks short of confidence. He's never going to be a world beater but there's far more in him then what he's produced this year.