I don't think you can really blame the halves at the moment. They've got nothing to work with. We're not making any real impact down the middle and the play the ball is slow and laboured. As a result the attacking line is getting bunched together and flat. There's not much the halves can do. If they try to organise the players into a deeper attacking line we're going to lose ground. It's too hard to be expansive from a slow play the ball yet Wane's tactics generally involve sweeping moves from side to side.
There's also no real attacking threat provided from fullback. Bowen is skilful. He proved that with a lovely catch and pass to Gelling before Smith's try. Unfortunately though he's just not offering a big enough threat and that is further stifling our attack.

Williams had some good moments but also got caught in possession too many times. We have to be patient though. That's a result of playing U19's rugby for a strong side. Often it was his best option to run the ball or take it into contact and it will take a while for him to break that habit. What he'll need is consistent game time and reviews after the game to show where he's going wrong and what needs to improve. All of our young halves will require patience to fix areas of their game.
If Hampshire was playing he'd probably need to be given time to improve his defence. Powell will need time to develop a more effective running game when required and use it more often. Some people seem to expect ready made halves but that's seriously unlikely these days. Whoever plays there will probably need patience and we will probably have a weakness there at times. It's just the sacrifice you have to make to bring through a young halfback while trying to remain a top side. Wigan and other clubs need to do it though or we might as well kiss goodbye to ever having a decent international side. The short term thinking of clubs in this regard will get us nowhere.

If we can get the forwards to make more of an impact down the middle and increase the speed of the ruck we might be able to judge Williams and Smith (or any of the other halves who get a game) on what they are really capable of.

Perhaps being yelled at and bullied by your coach 18 times a week isn't conducive to a good dressing room atmosphere. Man management is a complex science, Wane seems to have a single way of behaving and treating his players.

The only player I have ever heard criticise Wane is Gareth Hock, the rest of them would run their blood to water for him. It's easy to knock the coach when things are going bad, but when we turn our form around the same people will be waxing lyrical about him. The knee-jerk reaction on here has been laughable. Ancient and Loyal? Yeah right

Running your blood to water for the coach sometimes isn't enough mate. If the is no quality in key posotions then effort Isnt enough.

I said before the start season that green shouid have been replaced and how I thought your pack was to small and lacked quality.

The is no doubt wane can get his players up for games but I'm not sure he's clever enough rugby wise to be able to change things when not going your way.

Only time will tell. I don't believe your anywhere near as bad as you lot making out. I'm pretty sure you'll make top 4. Teams have blips and Wigan having theirs now.

at the moment he isnt

Spot on mate

What world are these people living in?

I got back from the game late and switch this on this morning to see pages and pages of this nonsense already posted.

Your coach wins the double then follows it up with another GF. We are six games into a new season for heavens sake.

Ancient and dis-loyal is right.

Get from up his rectum.

He had the easiest run to the CC final and fluked the GF due to injuries.

Other than that he's be an abject failure. Last season was a poor one apart from a run of 5 games at the end of the year. As much as you don't like it he's judged on results and most importantly trophies and apart from that one season he's not delivered.

Funny how fans think he can't do anything wrong just because he's from Wigan. It's laughable as the results and performances are obviously going against him.

I fear you are too kind, sir!

Poor discipline, even dropped passes; these are the kind of thing in early season that can be worked on in training and ironed out, to some extent. But your pack just not making the required effort, that's a different story.

It's not the losses that are troubling it is the standard of performance, tactics employed and recruitment policy.

We play as if we have a team full of monsters in the pack despite being very lightweight. Our halves run from touch line to touch line offering no go forward at all. The basic skills of the players are declining in front of our eyes.

Our recruitment strategy is deeply flawed and short sighted.

It is all well and good saying the players will run through walls for him, but if they are not prepared by him with the right tools then effort is pointless as it will not lead to good performance.

In relation to the halves in my opinion Smith has now used up his previous seasons form justification for selection.

Next game I would love to see Williams at 7 and Rocky at 6.

Williams and Smith doesn't work, I don't believe it ever will as they are too similar in their style.

It's a really strange situation.

I can see valid points from both sides of the camp.

1st two or three sets against Leeds, I'm pretty sure our props didn't make one carry. They just don't seem involved enough and we rely too much on the wings and centres.

Our passing and last tackle options when under pressure isn't great.

However, it's the mistakes that are killing us. Two kick offs - possession handed straight to Leeds. Soft pens and poor handling.

Cut those out and even with the weaknesses in the side we become far more competitive.

We're just putting ourselves under too much pressure to judge the quality of the team properly.

How much is basil skills training, how much is lack of application by the players, how much is inexperience especially under pressure? Difficult to say.

Smith isn't showing the leadership needed at this point, but I'm not sure the answer is replacing him with Hampshire.

What I do believe is that those people who criticise Wane's coaching as just bawling atbthe players are wide off the mark. He pays lots of attention to detail, one on one coaching, player skills, etc. he's not an old style shout atbthe players type of coach.

We made good breaks and both wings looked dangerous. Logan had one of his best games. If the ref had played on with the free play following Bowens pass from the floor, the complexion of the game changes.

My gut feel is that patience and small changes are required and we will be competitive again. Throwing everything out is not the way to go at this stage.

Attacking Smith is silly.

Right from the very beginning and up until the end - Smith has and will ALWAYS be a "big pack" scrum half. Put him amongst physical, yardage-making ball-carriers and he'll gladly marshal them up and down the **centre** of the pitch.

For the life of me I can't understand why you bought a forward's scrum half only to then decide that forwards are redundant. Smith's short-passing game isn't suited to the channels (not least because he doesn't spin a fast, flat pass).

Agree but I would go a little further some players need to be dropped to give them a kick up the backside as they are clearly not performing.Bowen and McIlorum being two prime examples and both are replaceable from within the squad without too much disruption. Logan did well enough for me last night to deserve a starting position next time.

The biggest single change though is getting the players to get the basics right - too many stupid mistakes are draining the energy and confidence from the team- inviting too much pressure and teams like Leeds will always capitalise on such errors. When Wigan were at their best over the last season or two it is been because the basics were right - it is not exactly rocket science.

Like you I do not think wholesale changes are the way forward and especially I do not think it is all doom and gloom like some seem to think- one really good performance will make a world of difference, confidence for me is the single biggest issue at the moment, the players seem to be playing nervously at the moment.

I should add - given the stats turned in by your front row last night you'd better PRAY Wane keeps the kids out (for the sakes of their careers).

It's sheer lunacy to expect some rookie *playmaker* to save the club's skin when the very foundation of any playmaker's game is sinking quicker than a torpedoed battleship.

I think if the result goes against Wigan next week then the Good Friday game will be a powder keg and Wigan will come out all guns blazing. They need to match up to Saints physically and I'm not totally sure they can match them toe to toe on current form (2 weeks is a long time in RL though)

What are the odds on Mickey Mac seeing red?

Genuine question as he's lost it a couple of times V's Saints.

I thought it was a very even match, the difference being our lack of leadership and the ref jumping on everything we did (whilst letting you get away with an awful lot).

We're rudderless at the moment - I'd honestly ditch Smith as he adds nothing in this side. He's meant to be the senior player, but he's providing no organisation at all. Put Williams and Hampshire out there - let's see what they've got.