| FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Smith |
 |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 29773 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
10919_1322084665.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
|
|
I think we need to cut Smith some slack here. He's not had a full pre season after touring with England, he's been in and out of the side with his ban, he's playing alongside a new halfback partner and on the back of a set of props that haven't been all that great so far this year.
He's not been at his best but Smith has money in the bank as far as I'm concerned. He needs to improve, there's no doubt about that but talk of moving him in to 9 or replacing him is OTT.
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 1832 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
15723.gif
:15723.gif |
|
|
Blaming Smith for the lack of a more direct half back playing along side him is a little unfair. He does what he does well, he was never signed as a dynamic line breaking half back. Green was more that kind of player, we needed to replace Green with like for like and we haven't, as yet anyway, time will tell for Williams. To blame Smith for that though is pointing the finger at the wrong person. The coach makes the decisions, not Smith.
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 9565 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2019 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif
:fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
|
|
Playing for England last year Smith looked a reasnable organiser and good kicker. What really let him down was the lack of any running game at all. In that respect he is very similar to Deaccon. Hopefully he can develop one - Adam Reynolds used to look entirely one dimensional with the ball, with a similar focus on kicking and not much else.
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1979 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
68548_1368547004.jpg
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
|
| Quote: Grimmy "We nearly got ourselves onto the same page there until you mentioned right centre, super Gells all the way! He made nearly 200 metres against Brisbane with groin strain btw. I bet the forwards bloody love him for the amount of hard yards he takes off their hands! Prop wise Ithink we will be a lot better if we can get Flower, Clubb, Mossop and Tautai all out there at the same time, Sutton looks a bloody good prospect as well, definitely room for a solid older head if we can get hold of one though, there's an injury or two between those four so we need contingencies (preferably not involving Crosby, who I would loan out to a good Championship side like Leigh for the season)'"
Still think that about Gelling after Sunday?
My worry with him is that this is as good as it gets.
He makes plenty of metres in defence. He can't pass. He chooses daft moments to offload and he drops the ball too often in collision and also in open play. He is erratic and can't be trusted to play consistently well week in and week out... And his hair is stupid. |
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 32357 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
3076_1671446335.jpg
SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg |
|
|
Quote: Aboveusonlypie "Still think that about Gelling after Sunday?
My worry with him is that this is as good as it gets.
He makes plenty of metres in defence. He can't pass. He chooses daft moments to offload and he drops the ball too often in collision and also in open play. He is erratic and can't be trusted to play consistently well week in and week out... And his hair is stupid.'"
I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, BUT Gelling is making more metres than any other Wigan player, he's actually fourth in Superleague and that's without having the task of making easier ground as the wingers and fullbacks do. If you ship him out who is going to make that ground for the team. He actually carries the ball more than any other player in Superleague, his work ethic is excellent, maybe he needs more help from his teammates.
Could Gelling play as a wide running second row if and when Sarginson and Thornley are fit?
Matty Smith should be doing better. We know he's not a running half so his passing, kicking and tackling have to compensate. His decision making in the last two games has been poor. The attempted drop goal v Brisbane, the bomb on Sunday. On both occasions the ball should have been kicked low and hard to the corners to make the opposition play from deep.
www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats
Tackling, I don't think there are a pair of halfbacks who have to tackle as much as the Wigan pair. |
|
Quote: Aboveusonlypie "Still think that about Gelling after Sunday?
My worry with him is that this is as good as it gets.
He makes plenty of metres in defence. He can't pass. He chooses daft moments to offload and he drops the ball too often in collision and also in open play. He is erratic and can't be trusted to play consistently well week in and week out... And his hair is stupid.'"
I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, BUT Gelling is making more metres than any other Wigan player, he's actually fourth in Superleague and that's without having the task of making easier ground as the wingers and fullbacks do. If you ship him out who is going to make that ground for the team. He actually carries the ball more than any other player in Superleague, his work ethic is excellent, maybe he needs more help from his teammates.
Could Gelling play as a wide running second row if and when Sarginson and Thornley are fit?
Matty Smith should be doing better. We know he's not a running half so his passing, kicking and tackling have to compensate. His decision making in the last two games has been poor. The attempted drop goal v Brisbane, the bomb on Sunday. On both occasions the ball should have been kicked low and hard to the corners to make the opposition play from deep.
www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player_stats
Tackling, I don't think there are a pair of halfbacks who have to tackle as much as the Wigan pair. | |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1979 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
68548_1368547004.jpg
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
|
| Quote: Rogues Gallery "I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, BUT Gelling is making more metres than any other Wigan player, he's actually fourth in Superleague and that's without having the task of making easier ground as the wingers and fullbacks do. If you ship him out who is going to make that ground for the team. He actually carries the ball more than any other player in Superleague, his work ethic is excellent, maybe he needs more help from his teammates.
Could Gelling play as a wide running second row if and when Sarginson and Thornley are fit?
Matty Smith should be doing better. We know he's not a running half so his passing, kicking and tackling have to compensate. His decision making in the last two games has been poor. The attempted drop goal v Brisbane, the bomb on Sunday. On both occasions the ball should have been kicked low and hard to the corners to make the opposition play from deep.
Food for thought, especially about Gelling.
My worry is that in Josh Charnley we have a devastating finisher, the very best in Super League in 2012 and 2013. Poor Josh is trying his best I've no doubt, but doesn't look like breaking any records this season. If Goulding was alongside him I'd be more confident.
Gelling certainly does some hard work, but his error rate is high. The stats suggest that we are lacking at prop, something we all know about. Bateman, Faz and Joel are doing the work alongside Gelling with only Tony Clubb showing up well. I was glad to see Lee Mossop back, and I thought he did a great job considering his layoff. He must have been apprehensive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1979 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
68548_1368547004.jpg
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
|
|
Regarding Matty, I'll always support players who have been successful with us in the past. Matty has money and credit in the bank so to speak. He's going through a rough patch at the moment, but he'll improve, I've no doubt.
As an aside to that, it's not his fault we don't have a recognised goal kicker. It might take a little pressure off him if Hampshire where to play and take over the kicking, though from what I've seen Hampshire is a bit streaky.
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 11377 |  |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
2960.jpg
:2960.jpg |
|
|
The Gelling debate is an interesting one.
I'm of the opinion that he's only having to do so much work because your forwards aren't.
If your forwards were, he wouldn't be a talented enough centre to make your team.
I mean really, he can't be a long term answer for Wigan in the centres can he? He often looks like he has about as much control over his limbs as my 6 month old.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 15453 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
|
| Quote: FearTheVee "The Gelling debate is an interesting one.
I'm of the opinion that he's only having to do so much work because your forwards aren't.
If your forwards were, he wouldn't be a talented enough centre to make your team.
I mean really, he can't be a long term answer for Wigan in the centres can he? He often looks like he has about as much control over his limbs as my 6 month old.'"
He makes bad errors but then again we have seen him do some brilliant stuff with the ball that makes him look like a world beater as well. IMO he has both the talent and the work ethic, he just needs to cut down on the unforced errors and I honestly think he would be the best centre in the league. Unfortunately that's surely been the aim for a while now and he's stilll doing it. Even with the errors he's still well worth his spot |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 29773 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
10919_1322084665.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
|
|
For the last three months of last year Gelling looked like a world beater. In that period (not overall) he was the best centre in superleague by a mile IMO. He's big, powerful, pacey and had both good hands and a deft kicking game as well as big solid in defence. Fast forward to this year and his errors are killing him! He's still got all the physical attributes but he's struggling with his skill. Hopefully it's the colder weather and heavy pitch or it may just be a concentration thing as his place seems pretty safe.
I think we'll always have this wild inconsistency with him though. What you've got to hope is his big games and good spells come at the right times.
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 2174 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2006 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
23338.gif
Wellens 3/10 Like public transport. Late, slow and stunk
FIOS:23338.gif |
|
|
Josh did do better with Goulding on his inside. Goulding has neither the pace, power or size that Gelling has so had to rely on skill, ie draw the centre and /or wing and get the pass away to Josh.
Gelling's first instinct is to go for it himself and only pass if he gets stopped, when all the momentum has gone from the move
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 4786 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2015 | 10 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
73327_1685730441.jpg
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73327.jpg |
|
|
It doesn't seem five minutes since everyone was saying the same thing about Sarge; he never passes, or only as a last resort...
|
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 5504 | |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Nov 2006 | 18 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
29557_1715786245.png
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png |
|
| Quote: FearTheVee "The Gelling debate is an interesting one.
I'm of the opinion that he's only having to do so much work because your forwards aren't.
If your forwards were, he wouldn't be a talented enough centre to make your team.
I mean really, he can't be a long term answer for Wigan in the centres can he? He often looks like he has about as much control over his limbs as my 6 month old.'"
The short answer to that is we don't know. I feel confident in saying that, this time last year, you'd probably have been asking the same question about Sarginson though.
The truth is that Gelling has all the attributes plus a desire to win that is second to none. His work ethic is also exemplary as can be seen in the massive metres he makes week in, week out. Let's face it; it's only a week or so ago against Brisbane that he was arguably the best player on the park, up until getting injured.
There is only one real question mark hanging over him and that is consistency but, at the moment, the same thing can be levelled at the majority of our team. Will they come good? I think past seasons suggest they will. Will Gelling come good? Again, last season suggests he will. Does that mean he's the long term answer? Well, I reckon that's a moot point anyway as I don't truly believe that SL has ANY guaranteed long term answers anymore. |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1979 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
68548_1368547004.jpg
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
|
| Quote: Phuzzy "The short answer to that is we don't know. I feel confident in saying that, this time last year, you'd probably have been asking the same question about Sarginson though.
The truth is that Gelling has all the attributes plus a desire to win that is second to none. His work ethic is also exemplary as can be seen in the massive metres he makes week in, week out. Let's face it; it's only a week or so ago against Brisbane that he was arguably the best player on the park, up until getting injured.
There is only one real question mark hanging over him and that is consistency but, at the moment, the same thing can be levelled at the majority of our team. Will they come good? I think past seasons suggest they will. Will Gelling come good? Again, last season suggests he will. Does that mean he's the long term answer? Well, I reckon that's a moot point anyway as I don't truly believe that SL has ANY guaranteed long term answers anymore.'"
Sorry but can't agree here. There is one glaring question about him other than his lack of consistency - Can he pass to the winger????
People are overlooking this rather important factor because he makes so many yards. Let him make the yards in the second row or even at prop.
I'm beginning to think that he just isn't a centre.
Quick passing movements stop dead when it gets to him. He is starving Josh to death, and since Josh is one of our most potent weapons no wonder we are struggling. (I'm not just blaming Gell by the way, because Bowen must share the blame too) |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 1831 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
icons077e_files/5845-54zedonite-msnicons.jpg
:icons077e_files/5845-54zedonite-msnicons.jpg |
|
| Quote: nikos "Josh did do better with Goulding on his inside. Goulding has neither the pace, power or size that Gelling has so had to rely on skill, ie draw the centre and /or wing and get the pass away to Josh.
Gelling's first instinct is to go for it himself and only pass if he gets stopped, when all the momentum has gone from the move'"
I don't think that's fair on Gelling.
Goulding played with Sam Tomkins.
Sam used to draw all of the attention on his overlap runs, leaving Goulding with an easy pass out to a free Charnley on the overlap.
We still run the same system, but Bowen provides nothing like the same threat - he often passes way before he has committed his man, which renders the move pointless. Often when Gelling gets it he HAS to run with it because both he and Charnley are man marked.
What he did last year that he's failed to do this is draw in two tacklers on those runs and offload it to Charnley - but again that's something Goulding very rarely did, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison in my opinion. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
