Charnley has been out for 2 months plus so he's surely 'allowed' to be counted.

As for Wane cutting his nose off with the others that may be the case but it may also be that he doesn't think their form or attitudes were up to scratch. In an ideal world were everything was rosy he'd call on Taylor and Goulding but either he couldn't or wouldn't due to reasons only they know.

We don't know either way for sure but it's just another example of the challenges he's faced and has to keep on facing. To win a LLS, challenge cup and Grand Final in your first two and a half years in charge is a superb record. All that achieved during a time you've lost 10+ first choice players makes it all the more impressive.

I don't think Gouldings form warranted selection. Looking at his stats he has only gone over the 100 meter mark once this season and then only just. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1806 On Saturday Gelling made 151 and Sarginson 128. They also did their fair share of defending.

I don't think Gouldings form warranted selection. Looking at his stats he has only gone over the 100 meter mark once this season and then only just. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1806 On Saturday Gelling made 151 and Sarginson 128. They also did their fair share of defending.

I'm pretty sure that SW would have picked the side that gave him the best chance of winning. To suggest otherwise is I think foolish.

Charnley has been out since early April and wasn't ready. Goulding's form doesn't warrant being picked ahead of Gelling or Sarge. Taylor, I'm pretty sure, has been carrying an injury since before Magic. The rumours around his move to Hull are just that at the moment. If he doesn't want to play for Wigan anymore then maybe that's why he's been left out. If that's the case then SW decides if he's in the right frame of mind to risk him. Comparing Taylor to Sam /Lee Mossop/Pat etc is pointless. The situations are completely different.

And if anyone is suggesting that SW can't get the best out of the players at his disposal then they are stark raving mad.

Finally, for the sake of balance. His comments before the game were ill-judged. I don't think they did him any favours. Maybe he'll learn from it. In fact - I'd put money on it.

As I said near the start of the thread Wane is not the best coach in our history. What he is, is a bloody good coach who is doing a great job and still learning. One cup QF loss does not change that. Sometimes we just have to acknowledge our opponents played better than we did.

Who is doing that? Saying he didn't do well on Saturday is commenting on how he coached the team for that game and is not a comment on his time as a coach as a whole. In my opinion his team selection, use of the bench and tactics were all pretty poor. He was as out coached as much as any of our players were out-played and made more than his fair share of mistakes.

No one is suggesting that. Name me a coach who won't put out the side he thinks is gong to win a CC cup quarter final. The suggestion is he simply got the selection wrong (amongst other things).

I think Wane always thinks the side he puts out is capable of wining and so I hope he has learned a few lessons of the back of the defeat such as you can't leave your best prop out and replace him with a player who's first game back it is.



Flower wasn't ready either but he picked him. Farrell was not match fit but played. Wane has said already Taylor will play this week so bang goes the theory about not paying him because he doesn't want to play for Wigan. So if he was fit to play on Saturday and Wane left him out while playing other players who were not match fit,it was a mistake, pure and simple. If he thought Taylor was looking tired he should have left him out of the Hudds game, not the quarter final.

Goulding is simply a better centre than Sarge and should have played if fit. Wane might think Goulding has been below par but its no use dropping the player if the replacement isn't as good anyway. And why him? Dudson has been poor more than he has been good this season but got a game. If he wants to make a point and try and run a meritocracy a cup game isn't the time to do it when the side is already disrupted by injuries.

Given the injury situation the senior players should be a shoe in for such a game as that. He's not got the luxury to be dropping players or resting them for a cup tie.

It was a bad few days at the office.

I think people need to remember that under some of our other coaches we lost the odd cup game here and there.

We will all never agree 100% of the selections 100% of the time it that doesn't make Wane a bad coach. He had his reasons for making those selections. Sometimes they come off and he's hailed a genius, sometimes the team loses and he's labelled a dunce. It isn't all about the individual. It's the overall team performance, and as a team we gave too much cheap ball in the 1st half to put pressure on Cas.

Sport isn't about certainties, the players on the field have to take their chances and last Saturday the players picked had the chances to win the game but didn't take them.

From 2001 onwards (apart from the 'dark years' - Saints 75-0, Salford and Catalans knocked us out from '05-'07) we have always either won the cup or been knocked out by a team full of internationals and players with big game experience who went on to win either the challenge cup or the super league the year they knocked us out. Call me disrespectful but Cas don't fit into that category, and Wane should have been able to coach us to a win with the players he had at his disposal. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but it certainly stands out as a poor cup result for a Wigan team in the Super League era

I agree it is a poor result, but it didn't feel like the shock of losing to them last time in the cup.

I put most of the loss down to the players application on the day and disruption caused by a number of injuries rather than poor coaching.

Sorry I disagree. Firstly, you can't say that Goulding is 'simply' a better player. Sarginson has made the England squad and Goulding has not, so it really isn't that simple. Now obviously the England squad is no big deal, but Goulding has struggled to make it and the only time he was included was in 2010 as a winger not a centre. If you saw Sarginson's display at full back at Hull you would have to conclude that this guy has serious potential. My view is that full back will be his best position not centre. But this season he more than justifies his place at centre IMHO.

Secondly. Surely any sports club is a meritocracy, is that what you meant to say or did you mean something else?

What a difference a few games make Wiganers now doing the usual Wigan walk last night , and now calling for Shauns head , make yer minds up .

Living in Wigan's shadow does that to people.