Exactly, Hock gets no benefit of the doubt. He's done something that has lead to the management booting him out of the squad on the eve of one of the biggest matches of the last decade. The management may have been able to handle it better but this is typical Hock.

No we don’t. We’re just assuming and speculating. Don’t get me wrong it looks more and more likely that he has gone on the p*ss after a game and missed training, which if confirmed is pure stupidity on his behalf and warrants a disciplinary. It’s not the punishment (i.e missing the tournament) I am disputing, but the manner in which it has been handled. It can only have a detrimental affect on our build up not only to the Australia game but the World Cup as a whole.

It’s blatantly obvious if he has indeed gone out on the p*ss he wont have been alone, I therefore assume England will stick to their principles and the other players involved will be publically named and shamed with their punishments also made clear.

How can players drink before such an important game. I have paid for good seats and expect players to give their best which means not drinking alcohol. In fact, like tuigamala, Leuluai of Leeds and Hanley, I don't think they should drink at all. It just takes a bit of willpower.
When I went to watch the World Cup in Australia in 2008 I heard on good authority that alcohol was banned on the plane yet one player bought a bottle of Jack Daniel's in duty free and consumed the lot on the plane. Pathetic.

You don't like the assuming and the speculating, but you're doing an awful lot of that yourself with regard to the other players.

There are degrees of infringement. For example, some players may go on the lash the night before training and still turn up the next morning. They'll be reprimanded but as they were there for work, it won't be deemed as serious as those who weren't. Others may turn up but with the wrong attitude (as happened with a certain player shown the door at Wigan a few seasons ago).

Going on and on about others being involved is grabbing at straws. This scandal may widen, but that won't save Gareth, who will probably not get selected for England again as a result.

The other thing is - you're very concerned that the England management team have handled this badly because of the World Cup's proximity, but you still want all the other culprits publicly named and shamed as well (presumably to try and spare a Salford player's blushes). You can't have it both ways. We either limit the damage done to the WC to another colossal Gareth Hock brainfart, or we rope lots of others in and completely destroy our chances.

You have the perfect title for it there in your first part of your post

How am I speculating? Gareth Hock has confirmed to the BBC that other players were involved and he feels he has been harshly treated.

Also where did I say I want other players to be named and shamed? I said I assume England will release the same details of other players involved. I hope they don't, they have already made a pigs ear of all the whole thing already.

'It’s blatantly obvious if he has indeed gone out on the p*ss he wont have been alone, [iI therefore assume England will stick to their principles and the other players involved will be publically named and shamed with their punishments also made clear[/i.'

The first bit I've underlined is nothing but speculation.

The second bit, which I've italicised, doesn't say anything about you hoping this won't happen, but talks about principled behaviour and such, and therefore seems to imply that England SHOULD take public punitive action.

If you didn't intend it to read like that, fair enough. From your last post, we are clearly in agreement that making further examples of English players would be a disastrous decision.

But also ... and please understand that we at Wigan have been here so many times before. Gareth is telling the press it wasn't his fault. Gareth feels he's been harshly treated. Again.

You at Salford, will also, at some point, become quite cynical about all this.

From BBC Sport Website:

Gareth Hock has told the BBC that he does not think his breach of discipline was serious enough for him to be removed from England's World Cup squad.

The 30-year-old said he and some of his team-mates went on a night out after England's surprise defeat by Italy.

Hock overslept the next morning, missing a recovery session, and was informed of his dismissal in a phone conversation with coach Steve McNamara.

"For missing a 10 minute swim - I think it's out of order really," said Hock.

"I agree that it was wrong and we shouldn't have had a drink, but there were six or seven of us and we all did the same thing."

England have said they will make no further comment about Hock's removal. Huddersfield's Brett Ferres has been added to the squad in his place.

More to follow.

If it looks like a turd, smells like a turd and tastes like a turd it's usually a turd and Hock has a long history of turning his career into turds.

He can't keep his discipline in matches. God knows what he's like out of the public view.

It was like watching someone with frontal lobe damage when he turned out for Widnes at Craven Park this year. Lucky not be sent off three times for consistently trying to hit dale Ferguson and failing miserably. Gave away 5 penalties!

Talented player but serious personality problems. The people who manage him keep sacking him. This and Wigan bent over backwards for him in the past. They can't all be wrong.

Now he'll come out crying like all felons do 'It's unfair' 'Jammer made me do it' 'Mr. Wane didn't speak to me nicely'
'after blowing all my wages on medicine Wigan wouldn't give me anymore' etc etc.

He's out the joke was he was picked in the first place.

It's one thing to go for a few drinks after a game when you aren't supposed to, it's another to then not turn up in the morning. He is dragging other players (who did turn up) into it to try and save his skin which frankly tells you all you need to know about his mentality.

He has had enough chances, I just wish he would get his head on straight and realise his potential

Unfortunately, I think it's almost too late for that. Gareth has spent his career closing doors of opportunity on himself. Look how many major trophies his missed while at Wigan - four, at my count. He's now 30. Salford must surely be his final chance.

what an absolute snake

I bet the squad are all gutted that a white rat has been ejected from the camp.........

So what?

If i was busted, i would not highlight the fact that my "mates" did exactly the same thing.

Especially not in my official club statement.

Boo Hoo

You broke the rules (twice) so man up and take it on the chin. Don't drag your "mates" into the same pot of poop just because you could not drag yourself out of your pit in the morning.

i know your just trying stick up for a marquee signing of you'r club like we did when he was at wigan but i didn't take a genius to work out what has happened and i was speculating i read the sky reports. It didn't take a genius that his excuse would be well it wasn't just me and "a few of the players are upset at how i have been treated" he always victimize himself and its about time he took responsibility and grew up.