In 2011 we had an harder CC draw than Leeds did to win the GF that year

What cladding

Correct and anyone who supports the play off concept can have no complaints over Wigan's win given we played and beat every team who finished above us in the league to get to and win the GF.

As to the CC if you get a lucky draw, you get a lucky draw. It's a pure knock out competition.

I can't remember what sort of luck we had with the CC draw in the 80's/90's so this years path to the CC will all be just the same and forgotten by history. The winners won't be.

We always seemed to have tough semi finals, though I think we played York in a semi once

We did. Then got murdered in the final by Widnes.

Was that '84? Thought it was more like 89! Will check Bilko's site later

We didn't get murdered in the 89 Final. (Although somebody did)!!

They have a point - just not sure what it is

I guess anytime the underdog wins the final (has that happened often?) the question comes up.

Whatever else, we must be the only team in history to have been written off before the season, during the whole season, barring an early season "blip", and right up to 1/2 time of the very last game of the season. Oh, and we did the double, bizarre..!!!!

I think that says an awful lot about the pundits, to be honest.

Didn't Stevo tip Saints to win everything at the start of the season.

What planet is he on?

Stevos predictions are always based on dummy half play
Saints will beat Wigan because of Roby,
Wire will beat Wigan, Higham and. Monaghan will tear Wigan apart, Wigan won't handle Lunt etc etc

Now i can't get "Stevo Bingo" out of my head!!

Shows how you can't necessary judge a team by the names on the team sheet.

I've recently watched the 2000 and 2001 grand finals again and some of the players we had then were superstars. Radlinski, Robinson, Renouf, Connolly, Dallas, Johns, Lam, Newton, Furner, Farrell, Betts played in one or both games.

Yet they lost to St Helens in the final having finished top of the table and lost 54 16 in the grand final qualifier at home. The next year they finish 2nd to Bradford on points difference lost a relatively close grand final qualifier and then got destroyed in the final by a bulls team who, at the time, had a reputation as big game bottlers.

Does anyone remember if there were any extenuating circumstances that led to scores like 16 54 and 37 6 in big games from a team that looks to be full of class. Were they over the hill or mercenaries who didn't care? Either way, I've seen people say they would batter the current team but on the evidence of their respective performances in big games it would be the other way around. They don't seem to have the spirit, physicality, desire, commitment or discipline that the current team have and which cant be seen on paper.