Based on nothing but gut feeling I'd go with:

8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Mossop
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. O'Loughlin

For me Lockers is the best traditional 13 in SL. Admittedly I've not seen a great deal of NRL this season but I always did like Greg Bird as a traditional 13. Got a bit of house about him too.

Or another perspective is that before he went to Australia he was arguably the best and most consistent 2nd rower in SL and already one of the best in the world. He was an absolute powerhouse in attack and defence, that's why they wanted him.

Then, arriving in the NRL, he took it by storm and became Wests player of the year and one of the most feared second rowers in the competition.

So in short he's been one of the best second rowers in SL his entire career and then one of the best in the NRL for the years he spent there, I think that's why people 'lick his booty', because he's incredibly good.

So why is he so consistently average at international level? It can't just be because he's playing for England because Burgess, O'Loughlin and Hock have all outshone him

But is he actually and better in defence than H or Westwood last year(dropped abit this year IMO) does he break more than hock has he more handling skills than faz
Don't get me wrong he's a good player but just not as good as people mainly the media make out
I wouldn't start him in my England pack

I've got to say that minus the hype I'm not quite sure why Ellis gets talked of as being a huge player for England. He's a good player and always has been but he's a grafter, nothing more, nothing less IMO. He is consistant in attack making half decent yards but doesn't really do anything out if the ordinary and his defence is good. He certainly doesn't influence the game with the ball like Hock or Westwood can.

I'm not saying he's over rated saying this but rather the player I'm going to compare him to is underrated, he's a similar standard and type of player to Harrison Hansen.

My thoughts exactly - both are players anyone would want in their team/squad as they do all the basics right and you miss them when they are not there but neither is a game breaker/match winner.

Horses for courses.

Did you really just write that? Ellis is in a different league to players like Hansen.

The problem with your ilk is you never watch anyone else, be it opposition, or players from afar....

Paul Gallen is head and shoulders above ANY 13 worldwide...

Oh and he can play front row and second row when needed as well!

This is the key part. The NRL doesn't really use players in this manner, even though they have the players that could (and imo should) Lewis, Bird, Stewart, Mateo, (Wade) Graham, even SBW. Instead any back rower with a chance of playing a link role in addition to forward duty is automatically pushed wide as a second rower; and another battering ram/pure defender is put in the 13 shirt as lock - like Burgess, Gallen etc.

This is a very silly thread that needs locking.

Wigan fans will obviously think it's SOL.

Leeds/Saints/Wire fans will obviously think differently

All get ridiculed for their opinions. Round and round we go. Am I wrong?

MY ILK
WHO ARE U? REALLY !!!!
Do you think ill change MY opinion just because you told me too
If you bothered to read properly I said IMO
So jog on

This thread is more entertaining than a cas game

Ellis over rated
SOL best 13 worldwide
ST the best British player in the SL era

Just......