Karl Pryce wasn't being played played out of position, he also would have got more leeway had he been a Wiganer but in truth to compare him to Gelling is harsh IMO. The one thing Gelling doesn't lack is heart and its his bottle and enthusiasm that should buy him some patience from supporters IMO. He clearly got things to work on but it's equally clear he has real talent. He has played 3 or 4 matches this season with gaps of a number of weeks between each appearance. He's been much improved on last year but looks rusty in certain areas which is understandable.

I stick by what I said though, if he was English he'd be given more patience. If he were a Wiganer he'd be given even more. We're talking about a young lad here with less then 15 first team appearances under his belt and all out of position. To write him off already is crazy and thankfully Shaun Wane won't do that.

Long term we'll see which side of this debate was the correct one.

If i was to be brutally honest he's probably done more things wrong than right so far when he's pulled the shirt on, but how on earth can we expect him to be up to speed when he gets a chance to play (which is rare) if he cant even get a warmup game , it's ridiculous! He does have some potential, maybe not as much as what Ian Lenagan was raving about when Kevin Iro told him to sign him, but there is something there he just doesnt look safe when he gets the ball he tries too hard i think which maybe down to the pressure he's under with limited chances, he's superb at returning the ball so id give him a crack at fullback and see how he go's, you never know he could be Sams replacement if he jumps ship.

I presume you're joking here. Let's be fair Gelling is nowhere near good enough as a winger but he's needs to be givena crack at centre before too long. There are loads of games coming up (Cas/Bradford at home) when SW can afford to try this. Maybe he will.

I feel sorry for Gelling, he's getting no rugby and no luck either and when he does play he's out on the wing (like at Huddersfield when he went off injured in his first game of the season and was then out for ages). Thornley has played more than anyone this year, so he's due a rest.

Pryce, Paleaaesina, Phelps, Riddell, Roberts, Finch, Lima, Gelling and Lauaki. Some of those players went on to prove people wrong, but which white British players from '10 onwards copped as much stick as they did when they had an off day? The only one I can think of is Ainscough, which is quite surprising given that the team has been mainly made up of white Brits in that time. Black/overseas players aren't necessarily hated by the majority of our fans, but they do have to play better to prove themselves. I don't believe for a minute that so many people would be on Gelling's back if he was from Wigan.

id be very careful with comments like that

I honestly think it's true. I'm not saying they should have to, but it does seem to work that way

I really wouldn't bring race in to it. I'm somebody who thinks the foreign lads get a harder time then the English lads and inparticular Wigan lads but that's because people like to see the local kids doing well rather then the other way round.

There's a natural patience given to them.

I will make my final judgement on Gelling when I see him play in his correct position. He has been asked to play in an unfamiliar position and yes has made mistakes. I think he has the making of a decent second row, however, until i see him given a fair chance in his preferred position i will just appreciate the job he is doing for us.

I'm actually stunned by that comment.

All the black players I can remember at Wigan were held in great affection by the fans, even going back to the 60s and 70s. Even an underachiever like Ronnie Braithwaite was popular with the crowd.

Possibly the stupidest post iv ever seen in all my time on these forums.

Your on very thin ice I'd imagine.

Thin ice from what? It's not like he's come out with anything racist himself or in anyway condoned what's he thinks he's seen from a section of fans.

It might, imo, be misguided in regards the colour references but I certainly don't think he's a million miles away from the point in regards to antipodeans not being offered the same time or leniency as what academy lads are. You can sugar coat that or spin it in a different way if you want but it is a form of racism.

Some sections of our 'fans' are hell bent on the academy lads and it's frankly quite pathetic and not that far away from the policies of the BNP or UKIP who i personally detest.

Wigan born players don't have a god given right to opportunities just because they were born in the borough.

In your post [You made no reference to previous comments] you said you didn't rate him, and the points you cite as to why, is two knock ons and him not putting the ball down closer to the posts. And when I challenged you and pointed out other players who'd made very similar mistakes, receiving no negative comment from yourself, you chose to ignore it, and insulted my post.

Now if you don't like him, for whatever reason, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine. But, if you continue on your little mini-vendetta you have against the lad, do please be prepare to be challenged. If you cite such ridiculous points, prepare to be challenged. If you insult people's posts, prepare to be insulted yourself.

I think you make some very good points here Sgt. The world is a smaller place and people have the right to work across all sorts of national boundaries.

I've never heard anyone make the point you raise about Wigan born players, but you are right.

However Wigan are bucking some sort of trend with the squad at present being mainly Wigan born players. I think what most people like is that Wigan are producing their own players rather than buying success by going for expensive foreign imports (e.g. like Saints/Warrington/Wigan - of 10 years ago) and that has got to be for the good of the club if it is to be sustainable in the future.

If the orignal poster were to consider non-UK players and race then there's a higher minority bias in the non-UK player pool. However the moaning is pretty consistant to non-UK not non-white players so to make the statement is really an attempt to make a rasist slant where none exists.

If we were to make the comparison to the UK players we simply have a statistically low pool to pick from, Dasi Williams seemed to have got criticism in his very short time but no more than Ainscough or Pat Richards in year 1 at Wigan and certainly more than Jason Robinson, Ellery Hanley or Billy Boston.

There is a bias to local grown tallent and why not? Pride in the local community isn't a bad thing and if Wigan can bring tallent through v's buy from another team (UK or not) then why not?

Just to play devil's advocate. Does racism have to be against someone of a different coloured skin? While this type of racism is obviously the most prevalent, racism against other white cultures does exist [Commonly held ones against the French & Germans for example]. I don't feel there is a racial issue against non-uk based players. What I do feel, is that being an overseas player you will need to work harder, as the club have brought you halfway across the world to play for us. If an overseas player is not seen as pulling his weight, this will be highlighted, much quicker than a UK-based or especially Wigan-based player.

My issue with the criticism of Gelling is that it is completely unwarranted. He has yet to have a sustained run in his favoured position, and there for cannot be accurately judged, either as a potential talent or a current star. If he had been given the spot that Thornley currently holds, and after an extended run [10 matches or so] he was not showing much in the way of potential, than I could understand people getting on his back.

By no means does this make him exempt from criticism, but, I feel he comes in for harsher criticism than other players, and I feel this is unfair.