FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Jamie Peacock |
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| Quote: TrentBarrett "If any one listened to Dr Koukash on BBC Radio Manchester, he spoke about certain big teams using "mechanisms" to spend above the cap, they didn't go into details and Jack Dearden posed the question, "are they cheating?". I'm just curious if any one knows what these mechanisms are?'"
My guess would be that he was talking about things like the allowance for a long serving player (10 years service?) that we use so £50k of O'Loughlin's wage is off cap (that Leeds could use for Sinfield, Wire could use for Briers, Saints could use for Wellens) and the thing that was supposedly introduced when Sam signed his current contract to allow a club to keep one home grown star. I think there may be other things as well that are all perfectly fine and are allowances not counted on the cap rewarding good club practices. These mean that though the bulk of the squad wages will cost full cap the allowed extra bits for eligible players will take the actual spend slightly over the cap limit at those clubs that can use them.
These are things that Salford cannot take advantage of as they don't have a long serving player that qualifies and don't have a player like Sam or Ryan Hall that might allow them to use the extra allowances. So in effect they although they can spend full cap under Dr Koukash they are still a little bit restricted compared to the established big clubs who have been building their squads over several years.
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35892_1286104184.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_35892.jpg |
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| Quote: wiganermike "My guess would be that he was talking about things like the allowance for a long serving player (10 years service?) that we use so £50k of O'Loughlin's wage is off cap (that Leeds could use for Sinfield, Wire could use for Briers, Saints could use for Wellens) and the thing that was supposedly introduced when Sam signed his current contract to allow a club to keep one home grown star. I think there may be other things as well that are all perfectly fine and are allowances not counted on the cap rewarding good club practices. These mean that though the bulk of the squad wages will cost full cap the allowed extra bits for eligible players will take the actual spend slightly over the cap limit at those clubs that can use them.
These are things that Salford cannot take advantage of as they don't have a long serving player that qualifies and don't have a player like Sam or Ryan Hall that might allow them to use the extra allowances. So in effect they although they can spend full cap under Dr Koukash they are still a little bit restricted compared to the established big clubs who have been building their squads over several years.'"
Jack Dearden is such a sensationalist then he suggested some teams where "cheating" as a result of taking advantage of such allowances. I was aware of these dispensations for long serving players and home grown talent but I see it as a reward for clubs developing their own talent and an incentive for the likes of Salford to follow suit.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
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Jun 2009 | 15 years | |
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| Quote: TrentBarrett "Jack Dearden is such a sensationalist then he suggested some teams where "cheating" as a result of taking advantage of such allowances. I was aware of these dispensations for long serving players and home grown talent but I see it as a reward for clubs developing their own talent and an incentive for the likes of Salford to follow suit.'"
I listened to the show too. Dearden's a journalist so his reaction (assertion) was to be expected really, particularly to anyone familiar with listening to him. The dispensations are as you say rewards for good development and retention practices. If those are what Koukash was referring to then it also makes sense of his "exceptional circumstances" references as the inability of Salford to take advantage is not any fault of the present owners. I still don't think they should be made an exception though.
On the plus side for me the presence of Koukash and Noble in the studio (and the bigger story) did prevent Dearden from spouting his gibberish idea (that he trots out every season) of applying bookies' handicaps to cup games (such as ours) and giving the lesser team an actual points start to make the final score closer.
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Player Coach | 18737 | No Team Selected |
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Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
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16493_1299497226.jpg [quote="king warrior":prbr924b]Adam Blair flew over yesterday and has been training the deal is going to be signed this week
Got to say this is a top signing[/quote:prbr924b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16493.jpg |
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| Quote: TrentBarrett "If any one listened to Dr Koukash on BBC Radio Manchester, he spoke about certain big teams using "mechanisms" to spend above the cap, they didn't go into details and Jack Dearden posed the question, "are they cheating?". I'm just curious if any one knows what these mechanisms are?'"
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 319 | |
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Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: sergeant pepper "Your living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that expansion sides are the way forward. Why try to flog what is essentially a proven recipe for disaster and ridicule? Do people not realise that every expansion team apart from Catalan have failed? We've been to the rugby mad area of South Wales, we've been to two of Europe's grandest cities in London and Paris and seen nothing of worth. We've been to Cumbria and seen nothing but a few ok seasons for Barrow in the championship. Do i need to go on?
There's a viable future for RL and it's in the hearts and minds of the heartland clubs. It's in the heads of guys like Lenegan, Simon Moran, Eamonn Mcmanus, Adam Pearson, Dr Kukash etc that will drive the game forward. People with passion for the game that want to see it progress and give the fans that love the game what they want.
I think people are sick to death of the way RL is going down the pan. Fans who've followed the game for years are turning down season ticket renewals and instead cherry picking games. There's a gulf in performance and match quality from week to week and people are voting with their feet.
These 'fair weather fans' are the people that we need to get back into the game on a more consistent basis. It's not rocket science that people are more willing to part with hard earned cash if they enjoy what they see, get value for money and have a sniff at success. The quickest way to achieve this is by reducing the teams to 10 and concentrating what is an already diluted player base between a smaller number of sides. If you then up the salary cap we'd stand more of a chance of keeping players.
You talk about having less games in a season means less revenue for the club. I flat out disagree with that. If every game was going to be an epic and close affair which was played to a high standard then we'd see our attendances swell. Take our home game vs Wire for example that should be the norm and not the anomaly when it comes to game standard in this country. Your telling me that more people wouldn't tune in and turn up if every game was played like that. There's zero reason why it can't be - Why can't Hull FC, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford, Warrington, Salford, Saints, Catalan & Huddersfield all be power house clubs? All have the backing to be massive but all are held back by what is in reality Wakefield, Hull KR, Cas & London.'"
Your missing my overall point - There is a rule in business if your not expanding then your shrinking.
Reducing to 10 teams will not automatically spread the talent pool, given the choice players themselves will cherry pick the teams they want to play for and to think there will be a Sam Tomkins at every club is just crazy, there will be 5 or 6 Sam's at the top two clubs because these kind of players know which teams are more likely to challenge for honours and given their talents the clubs will pay for it (with the increased cap).
To say nothing has come from expansion sides is madness, there are more schools and amateur clubs in the south playing rugby league on a regular basis than there were 10 years ago, expansion is not an overnight thing it is built over many decades.
Why will every game be an epic affair, the talent pool isn't that big to have an epic game every week regardless of opposition, no sport has that kind of league and never will have. We will be left with the same type of games we have now, some intense and some walk overs we will just have less games to watch.
So your idea is to bury our head in the sand and reduce to a small minority of clubs playing professionally and hope that ping pong doesn't make a come back and take over our television slot with sky.
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| Quote: Grimmy "I mean the average game will be better, because there won't be as many walkovers. Let's say Castleford, Hull KR, London and Widnes go down for example. Instead of
If you play more games against the top clubs then yes it will make for a better spectacle but this does not help build for a better future if a handfull of games against team witihin a 30 mile radius of each other is the only thing we have to look forward too.
RL is the second fastest growing sport in the States, RL is played in some format in many countries across Europe, we need to build on this and not restrict the professional game or we will become even more a minority sport, then these areas where the game is just getting a foothold will die off because of it.
I don't have the answers and im not saying we should just throw a handful of teams into the league from other areas but we need to be actively trying to expand the game and raise it's profile.
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Jul 2002 | 22 years | |
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2553.gif I've seen them bomb a quarter final, bottle a semi final, finish as league leaders, but I've still, never, seen the Wire win the league
Doom and gloom, doom and gloom:2553.gif |
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| bang on. always thought he was a very clever bloke. he might sound yorkshire but he talks sense.
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| Quote: TrentBarrett "If any one listened to Dr Koukash on BBC Radio Manchester, he spoke about certain big teams using "mechanisms" to spend above the cap, they didn't go into details and Jack Dearden posed the question, "are they cheating?". I'm just curious if any one knows what these mechanisms are?'"
Third party payments to players. What's to stop, for example, one of the Warrington owner's wealthy friends giving money to a player outside the salary cap structure, and the club/player not formally declaring it? Ultimately the RFL don't have the resources to investigate these matters closely, so there will always be ways to circumvent the cap if you have the money.
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cartoons/WB181.gif :cartoons/WB181.gif |
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| The way to expand is a realistic pathway to the top, when you have enough playing the game you look at a Championship team, if that goes well and the player pool increases and likewise crowds you look at going FT - currently the only FT set up is SL, that's a hell of a jump from playing Dewsbury in September to Leeds in February. The second tier provides a logical rung to aim for whilst building a club, new or old, plus it doesn't kill the relegated club.
The second tier must have Toulouse and maybe another French club to make the 10, imo, as the international game must be a big part of why we should do this.
The top tier must be special, 1500-2000 gates at London and Salford do not make it so. Ramshackle stadia at Cas or Wakey do not make it so.
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10174_1376908073.png 23 - 20 - 4
Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10174.png |
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| Wealthy owners could, for example, give top players credit cards with large credit limits on. Players buy things anonymously and the owner pays off the balance.
Not saying it happens like, just a suggestion
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63362_1317664225.jpg [b:35jm31e6][color=#FF0040:35jm31e6]Formerly known as Moonlight Flit[/color:35jm31e6][/b:35jm31e6]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_63362.jpg |
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| Quote: Orrell Lad "Wealthy owners could, for example, give top players credit cards with large credit limits on. Players buy things anonymously and the owner pays off the balance.
Not saying it happens like, just a suggestion
Wot ?
Like how Rugby Union used to be ?
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icons3ae4_files/4541-162reymo-msnicons.jpg If your not cheating, your not trying. Barrie Mcdermott:icons3ae4_files/4541-162reymo-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: jonh "I really like Peacock, despite his not so great presence in front if the camera, I think he is a very intelligent man, who has real drive and ambition. When he does hang his boots up I would love to see him go into a real administrative position with the RFL not a token appointment either.
Knowing the RFL though they will fall over themselves to give John Wilkin a role because he looks good on TV, despite having 0 substance.'"
Don't disagree regarding peacock, but if RFL only appoint if you look good on TV. What the hell went wrong with the appointment of Nigel Wood!!!!!
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44480_1390845286.jpg It's been fun.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44480.jpg |
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| What's to stop a wealthy owner saying 'honour your contract and at the end when you've left i'll give you a big wedge of money as a present'.
A thought on the 3rd fixture too if it goes to 10 team league.
Have the 3rd games as a neutral venue and the 9 neutral matches are a tournament within a tournament.
You still pick up 2 points for the league if you win but there's also a neutral venue cup at the end so whoever wins the most neutral games of the 9 gets a cup end of season, make winning this along with CC winners, GF winners and LLS winners the 4 places for the expanded WCC. You're giving extra spice to some games.
Double head the games and divvy the money out on the walk ups and after sales
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6278_1381491357.jpg [b:3ekusm3q][color=#FF0000:3ekusm3q]WIGAN RLFC[/color:3ekusm3q][/b:3ekusm3q]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6278.jpg |
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| Last nights difference in strength and speed is a big reason why p&r can't happen on a 1 year basis imo. That Leigh team would be down before it got to grips with it. Give them time to get used and add some names and they've a chance. See Widnes for example.
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44480_1390845286.jpg It's been fun.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44480.jpg |
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| Are Leigh full time professionals though, i mean proper day in day out 100% all they do is play and train rugby league no other worries aside, full committed players?
Besides with a 10 team league you'll have more current sl standard guys having no choice but to play in SL2 the gap isn't as big as it is meaning transition is easier.
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