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MjM
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Let all the doubters keep doubting and those who believe keep believing. We’re only interested in those in the bubble. Anyone who wants to come in the bubble, you can come in. But you’ve got to keep believing.:86.jpg



Quote: Deano G "Some astonishingly deluded posts on this thread. RL has seen a number of its top flight clubs go bust in the last few years. Clubs are losing money despite paying player wages which are salary capped at a level which in real terms is at least 30 per cent lower than at the outset of the cap.

How anyone can suggest things are ok in RL is beyond me.'"
Are you saying you agree with the BBC's report that the debt is a problem? As that is a highly illiterate reading of financial statements.

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Are we all just slagging off Riley on here? He blocked me on Twitter. Tool.

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CPWigan on WiganWarriorsFans.Com:



Quote: Conroy "Until he plunged us into debt of course.'"


icon_rolleyes.gif

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CPWigan on WiganWarriorsFans.Com:



Quote: Deano G "Some astonishingly deluded posts on this thread. RL has seen a number of its top flight clubs go bust in the last few years. Clubs are losing money despite paying player wages which are salary capped at a level which in real terms is at least 30 per cent lower than at the outset of the cap.

How anyone can suggest things are ok in RL is beyond me.'"


No. Not everybody does. The reality it is not but the owners hate negativity and criticism.

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Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg

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Quote: MjM "Are you saying you agree with the BBC's report that the debt is a problem? As that is a highly illiterate reading of financial statements.'"


The reading of the report does seem to take a deliberately negative view of the world but are you saying the game is in a financially healthy state?

You didn't need to read the report to hear the HKR chairman on the program basically state he and his fellow directors bank roll the club and we know Bradford went bust and Salford just got rescued. The Crusaders went bust. Wakefield have teetered on the edge for a number of years and a while back London went bust.

Wigan are OK but IL is in no rush for a salary cap increase because the club can't afford one and would go from small profit to making a loss if there was one and Wigan paid up to it. The fact a club with our support, record and seemingly very good commercial operation is in no position to push for a salary cap increase (which is LONG overdue) is the best indicator you have that there is just not enough money in the sport at the top never mind the bottom.

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[b:3ekusm3q][color=#FF0000:3ekusm3q]WIGAN RLFC[/color:3ekusm3q][/b:3ekusm3q]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6278.jpg



Quote: Fylde_Warrior "

Good response. icon_thumb.gif

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Quote: Conroy "Until he plunged us into debt of course.'"


Maurice was dynamic the first time around. The second time around, I thought he was woeful.

The mismanagement he and Dave Whelan showed almost got us relegated. The Murrayfield Cup win was painted by Mo as "a rebirth for the club", but from then-on we got steadily worse, year-in and year-out, until we were in the region of 70-point drubbings, something I barely even remember from the 1970s. There was a good quote from Ray French around 2006, which went something like: Someone's taken their eye off the ball at Wigan, for quite some time.

For all that, if Mo's plans at the start of Super League - to merge failing clubs etc - had been put in place, I feel sure that things would be a lot healthier now.

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22/03/2013 Get LEIGH outta wigan:



Quote: Cruncher "Maurice was dynamic the first time around. The second time around, I thought he was woeful.

The mismanagement he and Dave Whelan showed almost got us relegated. The Murrayfield Cup win was painted by Mo as "a rebirth for the club", but from then-on we got steadily worse, year-in and year-out, until we were in the region of 70-point drubbings, something I barely even remember from the 1970s. There was a good quote from Ray French around 2006, which went something like

Why do you think the sport would be better now if the forced mergers had happened?.My own opinion is nothing would be different,the tv deals would still be the same,the numerous global sponsors we don't have would be the same,the attendances would be the same.
Each to there own but imo rl would still be entrenched in the problems "now" that its had since the day of its birth.

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Quote: j.c "Why do you think the sport would be better now if the forced mergers had happened?.My own opinion is nothing would be different,the tv deals would still be the same,the numerous global sponsors we don't have would be the same,the attendances would be the same.
Each to there own but imo rl would still be entrenched in the problems "now" that its had since the day of its birth.'"


The problem the mergers was supposed to address was one of [itoo many clubs competing for too few spectators in certain geographic areas[/i (while at the same time allowing SL to expand to other areas as merging teams would create openings for new sides). It wasn't supposed to cure all the ill's of the sport.

If the mergers had happened and worked as he envisaged then we would have a SL composed of "big" clubs with larger supporter bases than some of the smaller clubs in SL have or are ever likely to have.

Now given the tribal nature of sport I could never see them working as they were outlined BUT what Mo had at least recognised was that there were [itoo many clubs competing for too few spectators in certain geographic areas[/i.

There still are.

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Quote: j.c "Why do you think the sport would be better now if the forced mergers had happened?.My own opinion is nothing would be different,the tv deals would still be the same,the numerous global sponsors we don't have would be the same,the attendances would be the same.
Each to there own but imo rl would still be entrenched in the problems "now" that its had since the day of its birth.'"


At the time Super League was inaugurated, the 'top flight' clubs in the western half of Yorkshire comprised Halifax, Huddersfield, Bradford, Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield and Featherstone - all scrapping over a relatively small pool of RL talent and a thinly spread reservoir of support. IMO, That's one problem that hasn't gone away, even though two of those clubs have since dropped into a lower division - we'll notice it even more now that everyone is having to grow their own. IMO, there isn't enough talent available to support even five top clubs in west Yorkshire. If you had three - say, Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield, and then one out in the Calder area (a combo of Wakey, Cas and Fev), you could concentrate the talent more efficiently and maybe could by now have created four rugby league super-powers instead of having one.

Same with the support. Bear in mind that once you get past the generation of old-timers who wouldn't shift their allegiance for love nor money, which we would have done by now if these mergers had taken place in the late 90s, a new generation of fans would have grown up, possibly drawn from a much wider catchment area for each club.

To a lesser extent it may also be true of Cumbria. It's been years since they boasted even one major club, but they continue to produce lots of young players, so the basic interest is still there. One Cumbrian team drawn from Workington, Barrow and Whitehaven could conceivably be a force to be reckoned with. Perhaps all their best youth talent wouldn't then head south into Lancashire.

It wouldn't have solved all the other problems you mention, but there is increasingly a school of thought that a leaner, stronger Super League - consisting of twelve clubs at the most (maybe even as few as ten) - is the way to go. Who knows, mergers might have helped us get to that at an earlier stage.

PS: Just noted that Dave O has responded before I've had a chance to post this. He makes the same point, but more succinctly than I have.

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22/03/2013 Get LEIGH outta wigan:



Quote: DaveO "The problem the mergers was supposed to address was one of [itoo many clubs competing for too few spectators in certain geographic areas[/i (while at the same time allowing SL to expand to other areas as merging teams would create openings for new sides). It wasn't supposed to cure all the ill's of the sport.

If the mergers had happened and worked as he envisaged then we would have a SL composed of "big" clubs with larger supporter bases than some of the smaller clubs in SL have or are ever likely to have.

Now given the tribal nature of sport I could never see them working as they were outlined BUT what Mo had at least recognised was that there were [itoo many clubs competing for too few spectators in certain geographic areas[/i.

There still are.'"

Actually ,i think it was meant to cure all rl ills,it never had a chance ,but i think that was the dream.
No you would't have had bigger clubs,am at a loss as to why you would think that.
He was wrong as usual,

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Quote: j.c "Actually ,i think it was meant to cure all rl ills,it never had a chance ,but i think that was the dream.
No you would't have had bigger clubs,am at a loss as to why you would think that.
He was wrong as usual,'"



Actually I doubt it was. I don't remember him ever making a comment to that effect, not can I imagine that he or anyone else would, as they would promptly have been shot down for such foolishness. It may well be that merging certain failing clubs would have been the start to a series of reforms designed to bring us into a new age, but as so often in a sport where the tail wags the dog, we didn't get off first base.

Just saying that "it wouldn't have created bigger clubs" doesn't add anything to the debate, unless you're prepared to explain why you believe that.

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Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery....... I will look to the moment, and miraculously, the future will take care of itself. Radio 5 Live, Sat, April 14th, 2007,...Dave Whelan, "In Wigan, rugby will always be king" 'I was certain, positive, convinced, and yet..........unsure' 'It's only rock 'n' roll, but I like it' Worry will not prevent destiny from unfolding.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3632.jpg



Quote: Conroy "Keeps me entertained.

Anythings better than watching Latics !!!! icon_wink.gif

j.c
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22/03/2013 Get LEIGH outta wigan:



Quote: Cruncher "Actually I doubt it was. I don't remember him ever making a comment to that effect, not can I imagine that he or anyone else would, as they would promptly have been shot down for such foolishness. It may well be that merging certain failing clubs would have been the start to a series of reforms designed to bring us into a new age, but as so often in a sport where the tail wags the dog, we didn't get off first base.

Just saying that "it wouldn't have created bigger clubs" doesn't add anything to the debate, unless you're prepared to explain why you believe that.'"


I'll keep it simple for ya.
People from barrow workington and whitehaven wouldn't have travelled to carlisle.
They wouldn't have gone from warrington to widnes to make a club called cheshire.
The notion of a 'super' south Yorkshire club made out of doncaster and sheffield is laughable.
A Manchester club made out of Oldham,Rochdale and Salford,what nonsense.
Hull,HKR & cas and wakey should probably have merged.

I love the saying ,the tail wagging the dog,the dog was, and still is, a bloody chihuahua.

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: j.c "The notion of a 'super' south Yorkshire club made out of doncaster and sheffield is laughable.
A Manchester club made out of Oldham,Rochdale and Salford,what nonsense..'"

What well made points icon_rolleyes.gif

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