Manly aren't a poor side this year when they've had everybody fit - they're capable of beating any side in the competition.

My view is that Leeds' regular weekly performances are all down to player power and very little to do with McDermott. There is no way on earth that he would have wanted the start to the season Leeds had last year (he must have been VERY close to getting the chop) or aimed to finish 5th, or overseen a number of absolutely dire performances this year (including an embarrassingly woeful defensive effort against you lot at home). He simply doesn't have the money in the bank to do that. His predecessor - having won the GF 2 years running - got the chop for being smashed at Wembley. There's no way McDermott could survive a similar result this year IMO.

OTOH Leeds' senior players DO have that credit, both with fans and - more importantly - Gary Hetherington. It should surprise nobody that they are perfectly happy to have a coach they can pretty much ignore (hence if Hetherington asks them about McDermott, I'll bet they are full of praise for him). The alternative would be a coach with some authority and clout who could and would drop them after games such as Wigan at home. Far better for them to focus on what they want - the CC and making sure they qualify for the play-offs and wind it up from there.

I suspect a loss at Wembley and poor play-off showing would see McDermott gone before next season, or as soon as Hetherington could sort a decent replacement, because the quality of 'entertainment' offered by Leeds this year has been dreadful at times. Unless they win something - at least the CC - I'd bet Hetherington would have real trouble shifting season tickets for next season without making major changes on the coaching and playing front.

I also think BTW that everybody is overplaying the so-called benefits of finishing 5th or similar. Leeds won it from there last year which is good in the sense that it shows its possible - lets face it, even with a top 5 system only 2/3 teams generally have a dig. It doesn't at all suggest its somehow 'better' to finish 5th than 1st.

As for finishing 5th being the new 1st, I'm waiting until the end of the season to reserve judgement. Lets face it took a good few years for a team outside the top 2 to contest a GF (Bradford 2005 I think) and since then only a couple of GF since have been contested by a team outside the top 2 and I think Leeds were the first team to compete from it from outside the top 3.

I also think a lot of it will also come down to how much Wire want the CC or not compared to Leeds. You only have to look at ourselves and Leeds from last year, winning almost hindered us (yet also if we did win the GF it would have been a major achievement). Also will Wire want the CC or GF more? Either way whoever wins the CC I cant see them winning the GF.

Think this would be fair and to keep other clubs interested a plate final for next 6 below and have it has a double header at Old Trafford?

Leeds - my team - aren't the side they used to be. BUT they have a tremendous will to win, don't panic in big games and tend to prosper against teams determined to reduce errors to a minimum or to dominate them physically. Where we tend to come unstuck is when the opposition play expansively and are prepared to take risks (witness the first 20 mins of last year's CC final or the one where Wire tore us a new one). But that takes confidence and for as long as we keep winning more big games than we lose there'll be a tendency for the opposition to play exactly the sort of game that suits us. But I can see why there's such a debate re how good Leeds actually are because you, wire, saints and probably others have enough talent to beat us these days. But until such time as you do it regularly then we'll carry on writing our name in the record books.

That would be quite fair imo, if 1st wins they are quite clearly best team in the season, if 2nd wins, both teams get silverware and looked at being a great contest for each other over the season.

Sorry but I can’t agree with you that “Rogues Gallery” was arrogant in saying Leeds had already played their get out of jail card free. He may be wrong, only time will tell. I don’t know, but I think he may have a point. If their plan is as some people are saying to pick and choose which games, and which teams to beat at what stage, then for one I don’t believe it, and for another, at some stage it will go tits-up.

8 badminton players were disqualified today for picking and chooses games, its not within the spirit of the olympics.
Rugby league has no spirit so you can get away with anything... prove me wrong

It has the spirit of the salary cap because we broke it!

Everybody breaks the salary cap, thats an area for discretion

There speaks a very bitter Wigan fan who can't bring himself to admit that his team was beaten by the better side on the day.

My point still stands up does yours?

Interesting thread given last nights result, although the Challenge Cup Final showed its not simply a case of Leeds turning up when they want but what this side does have is the mindset that when knockout rugby starts they more then most make the final and give themselves a great chance.

Difference between the cup final and the playoffs IMO is Leeds start building gradually from the start of September and try to peak in the last 2 weeks of the playoffs. The cup final is more of a 1 off game that comes when Leeds are still coasting. When Leeds turn up a notch defensively, as they always seem to do in the playoffs, no team apart from Wigan 2 years ago has been able to live with them. You can moan about finishing top being more important and all that but Leeds play the system we have and I do believe they would be pushing Wigan and Warrington at the top if it was a 1st past the post finish to the season.