FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > If Bulls are liquidated...... |
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| Quote: Conroy "Give everyone 4 points and a +52 points diff. Or alternatively just give everyone 2 points and +26 from here on in who play Bradford.'"
How does that address the additional Manchester fixture for Leeds?
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| Quote: Paul Youane "How does that address the additional Manchester fixture for Leeds?'"
That third Leeds fixture means that no matter what happens, Leeds are going to be advantaged or disadvantaged in some way. If all Bradford games are taken out they'll had played one game less than anyone else.
If the worse happens (which I don't expect anyway) I'd suggest, all home and away fixtures v Bradford are taken off the records completely, but the neutral fixture Leeds had at Manchester stays on the record. That way all teams are being treated the same in terms of home and away games and Leeds play the same number of games as everyone else.
Nothing is going to be perfect but I'd say that's about as fair as it could be.
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy "And that is the fault of the cap how?'"
Because they removed the "50% of income or £1.6m whichever is the lower" rule. All clubs can spend to the cap limit now regardless of if they can afford to. As I am sure you remember this change was introduced so the cap could be "live" following the outrage from the likes of Cas at Wigan's cap-breaking antics. So it's not the fault of the cap if a club is stupid enough to overspend but it is certainly true the cap has nothing to do with ensuring clubs do not go bust.
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62118_1550845628.png Everything [i:1c0rjla2]is [/i:1c0rjla2]Awesome:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_62118.png |
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| Quote: DaveO "Because they removed the "50% of income or £1.6m whichever is the lower" rule. All clubs can spend to the cap limit now regardless of if they can afford to. As I am sure you remember this change was introduced so the cap could be "live" following the outrage from the likes of Cas at Wigan's cap-breaking antics. So it's not the fault of the cap if a club is stupid enough to overspend but it is certainly true the cap has nothing to do with ensuring clubs do not go bust.'"
The cap have never had anything to do with whether clubs go bust or not. Whenever something like the Bulls situation happens the usual suspects come out with the usual tosh trying to blame the cap in some way, instead of focusing on Directors of clubs mismanaging the finances.
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| Quote: Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy "That third Leeds fixture means that no matter what happens, Leeds are going to be advantaged or disadvantaged in some way. If all Bradford games are taken out they'll had played one game less than anyone else.
If the worse happens (which I don't expect anyway) I'd suggest, all home and away fixtures v Bradford are taken off the records completely, but the neutral fixture Leeds had at Manchester stays on the record. That way all teams are being treated the same in terms of home and away games and Leeds play the same number of games as everyone else.
Nothing is going to be perfect but I'd say that's about as fair as it could be.'"
Works in the same way as my proposal to give everybody the points (my way would allow Widnes to look a bit better if a casual viewer scanned the table).
I also think it will be a moot point anyway.
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2572.jpg Ah, good taste!
What a dreadful thing!
Taste is the enemy of creativeness.
Pablo Picasso:2572.jpg |
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| rlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/18609190rl
"Super League bosses will allow Bradford Bulls to finish the season as a new company even if the club goes into liquidation in the coming weeks. "
good news
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| Makes a total nonsense of the new company though if the new company can inherit the old companies records, points, the only thing they lose is the debt.
Surely they are either the same old company, or a new company, they can't be both.
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The Communist Cap - dragging down success and aspiration to the levels of those who cba.: |
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| Quote: Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy "The cap have never had anything to do with whether clubs go bust or not. Whenever something like the Bulls situation happens the usual suspect come out with the usual tosh trying to blame the cap in the some way, instead of focusing on Directors of clubs mismanaging the finances.'"
Wrong. The cap was ORIGINALLY introduced to prevent clubs overspending on players i.e. spending beyond their means. As DaveO has already highlighted.
Subsequently the cap was "twisted" to promote a "level playing field" (whatever that means) and the 50% rule quietly discarded.
This effectively re-created the ability for clubs to overspend.
WLA once again your ability to turn a perfectly sensible post into some kind of personal insult comes to the fore.
I suggest if you want to read "tosh", then it would be wise to look at your keyboard.
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The Communist Cap - dragging down success and aspiration to the levels of those who cba.: |
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| Quote: Paul Youane "So how does this sit with your continued insistence that the salary cap is holding the game back?
Are you suggesting that all clubs that are operating at a loss should be obliged to reduce their player expenditure so that they exist "within their means"?'"
Of course. Don't you?
This was the original purpose of the CC.
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "Of course. Don't you?
This was the original purpose of the CC.'"
Actually I don't.
However I was however under the obvious mis-understanding that you wanted the salary cap increasing when in fact you want it reducing. Sorry for my mis-understanding.
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy "The cap have never had anything to do with whether clubs go bust or not. '"
Yes it has and it still in fact does.
Form the operational rules in section E1preventing Clubs
trading beyond their means and/or entering into damaging and unsustainable
financial arrangements;
Quote: Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy " Whenever something like the Bulls situation happens the usual suspect come out with the usual tosh trying to blame the cap in the some way, instead of focusing on Directors of clubs mismanaging the finances.'"
The cap has clearly failed in "prevent(ing) Bradford (from) trading beyond their means and/or entering into damaging and unsustainable
financial arrangements;" so it looks like the usual suspects know their facts and you, err, don't.
It is of course ultimately the Bulls directors fault but the cap has certainly failed in one of its stated purposes.
Had the 50% rule still been in force it may well not have.
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: XBrettKennyX "
Subsequently the cap was "twisted" to promote a "level playing field" (whatever that means) and the 50% rule quietly discarded.'"
It was only discarded when the cap went "live". It was still in the rules when it first went to a flat rate cap. They removed a safeguard that may well have protected the Bradford directors from themselves.
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10123_1554736671.jpg "I've not come 'alfway round t'world fot watch us lose. And I've come halfway round t'world, an' av watched um lose":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10123.jpg |
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| Quote: DaveO "London went out of business and I think I am right in saying it was Uncle Mo who opposed what happened with them in that they just wrote the debts off and carried on under a different name without any real interruption. He got slagged off at the time as it was seen as a lack of support for a team viewed as vital to the league but he was viewing it on purely business terms and felt it unacceptable clubs could just do this. It would give clubs no incentive to be well run if they could just wrack up debts, close and reopen a week later.
This is the same. That being so and given the precedent London set Bradford would no doubt feel hard done by if they were not allowed to do the same.
If London had been allowed to go bust completely then maybe that might have focused peoples attention that there was no easy way out.
I didn't/don't want to lose either club but Rugby League can't be seen a some sort of cowboy operation that just wrack's up debt and walks away from it.
If a club in Bradford survives then it should be like the Crusaders. Outside of SL. It is not really on to do this pre-packaged administration thing and carry on. Not when there may well be better run clubs after a place in SL.
This may seem harsh but if you look at the Rangers thing several clubs are opposing them retaining their league status as Mo did with London.'"
Insolvency laws exist for a reason, and unfortunately in cases like this you're often damned if you do and damned if you don't.
For instance, if Bradford Bulls folded, that means everyone associated with the club is out of work, and the company's assets - if any - are sold to repay creditors. Once that's done, that's it. Finished. Gone. Think Woolworths.
If someone comes along to buy the 'business', it doesn't necessarily mean the debts are completely wiped. The purchase price of the business goes towards paying the creditors, less IP fees. Granted, creditors may not get much compared with what they're owed, but vitally, it means that employees jobs are saved.
If going bust saves, in this case, 50 or so jobs, then is going bust really such a bad thing?
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10123_1554736671.jpg "I've not come 'alfway round t'world fot watch us lose. And I've come halfway round t'world, an' av watched um lose":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10123.jpg |
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| Quote: bewareshadows "If the bulls liquidate then surely they would lose all their players, how would they reform as a new club.'"
Their players become free agents, which means they're just as entitled to re-sign for Bradford as they are another club.
In fact at this stage in the season, probably only a reformed Bradford would be able to take them on.
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