FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > 1 st thoughts |
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| I was a bit worried by the amount of penalties we gave away. Too much silly wrestling stuff. At the time i felt each tackle was lasting a second longer than it should have done and didn't really feel hard done to for any of the penalties that were given against us. Discipline is so so important. Every time Wakey got a penalty, they scored, every time we got a penalty, we scored - simple as.
I realise that some wrestling is important but only at sensible times. For example we have a penatly away for lying on on the first tackle after a decent long kick. Wakefield were struggling to get back and our line was set and therefore we would have gained from a quick ptb. I think the players perhaps need to think on their feet a bit more rather than being bloody robots.
Nice run out in attack tho - Mossop looked dangerous and Feka was excellent. Thought Ainscough looked dangerous when he had the ball. Still expect more from Gleeson and Fielden, and Sam needs to get some longer studs in his boots the amount he slips over.
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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock
"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"
[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]
Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"
I thanked him and went on my Merry way!
RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!
"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."
Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Steve Ella's Beard "And Richie Mathers is still actually a decent player, who's now doing a lot better and settling in more in his new enivornment. Phelps has, as far as i'm aware played 21 games at fullback last season and the odd one or 2 in Australia. As a youth he was a stand-off as has been said. I personally don't think circa 23 games over his entire career is enough to sufficiently assess. Tell me how many mistakes did he make last season that resulted in a try, and i'm talking genuine mistakes - where he was solely at fault (not a freak bounce, and not a situation where most fullbacks would have been beaten)? I'd be very suprised if it's many.
Clint Greenshields, Brett Hodgson and Brent Webb have all been playing full back for far far far longer than 23 games, they have years (10 years in hodgson's case in first grade alone) on Phelps in this position so it's not really an apples for apples comparison. Cam was a utility back for the club, who's played at centre, stand-off, wing (check out Clint's career and you'll see he wasn't always a fullback either) and oddly hooker that we've slotted into fullback 10 games into last season. So 10 games into the season the guy has played at fullback for one of the few times in his career, and he's gone on and performed well by most of our standards and actually shown a dimension to fullback play that we were solely lacking when both Richards and Roberts had played there. To be perfectly honest i'm pretty amazed he's done as well has he has given the situation and lack of experience, do you not think so?
How could I predict his defence will get better week in week out? Well tackling and catching technique can be worked on and developed, creative spark, and the other big quality for a fullback - bravery (and lets be fair he's got it in spades) can't really be, you've either got them or you haven't. I've gone over Bilko's match reports (to try and use some views that didn't have my own bias) and I can't really find a situation last year where defensive lapses by Phelps cost us a game. Now considering I think it's fair to expect Cam to improve in this position, my own conclusion is what exactly is there to be worried about?
The common theme over and over again, from my own views, from my friends and family (some of which are fans of other clubs), from match reports both on Bilko's site and in Newspapers, and from normally trying to watch a game at least twice if it was televised, is that poor kicking options and silly mistakes (multiple times per match by more than 1 player) by pretty much the entire team over the course of the season are what cost us games. Now what was the 1 position where we did make a signing this off season? Scrum Half in Paul Deacon, who's got a good kicking game. The club and coaches would seem to agree that we're not doing too badly at fullback either.
And that's why I'm not worried. At the end of this season both Cam's and multiple other players contracts are up and can be either renewed or released and replaced with another player. If Cam continues to develop at fullback then fantastic, if he doesn't then we look for a replacement at the end of this season. I think we're in a really good position.
Seriously who in Superleague is actually currently better at fullback overall? My view isNegatives
Phelps - 2 x mistakes for tries
Sam - But saying that he didn't do anything wrong, just quiet
Tommy - Not a starting 9 (I've expressed my views many times but IMO move him there last 10/15 of each half). What he does well from 9 he can do from 7 when he sees something on or can do better in last 10 of each half if needed. We need a steady 6/7 and until Deacon proves he's the better option it's Sam & Tommy for me!
Coley - Awful, a bit like the Coley of Old, His performances last season however mean he should still be near the starting 17 for the time being.
Penalties - Gave away far too many penalties letting Wakey out their own 10/20 and too many 4th & 5th tackle penalties which in effect gives back to back sets (At least 6 IIRC today).
Previous poster says penalties for lying on, I saw it as much for leaving hands in and being generally sloppy as much as lying on. Farrell gave 2 penalties away in his first 3 tackles for leaving hand in.
Positives
Goulding - Took both his tries well
Howarth - Did ok, looked out of his depth 1st hour but as soon as we started going forward he actually demanded the ball and layed a hand in the last 2/3 tries with some good balls.
Piggy - Looked far better in 2nd & 3rd Qtr with him on field.
Joel - 1 poor handling error but otherwise played Well and is a real handfull with his deceptive size.
Hansen - Some real good solid hits
Prescott - Disagree with Rogues, I think he put some great hard runs in and takes 3 men into the tackle nearly every time.
O'Carroll - Some good hits in defence when covering across and picking up the drop off runner. Not big enough for me though and doesn't worry the defenders enough due to his size. Good 5th prop for me.
Mossop - Real Handful going forward
Feka - deffo lost a couple of stone (I've heard its over 3 from his peak middle of last year) and was a real handful continually dragging 3 defenders sometimes 4 into the tackle. Good footwork and pace/offload for the late try by Goulding(IIRC).
3/4qtrs - once the forwards got us to the right areas we looked like we could score quite easily.
Overall for a 1st game run out - 7 1/2 out of 10.
Well worth the trip.
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43178_1281391470.gif WIGAN RLFC
SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 2010
LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010
FLOODLIT 9 CHAMPIONS 2010
U20's VALVOLINE GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2010
BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010
CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010
MAN OF STEEL 2010 - PAT RICHARDS
YOUNG PLAYER OF THE YEAR 2010 - SAM TOMKINS
COACH OF THE YEAR 2010 - MICHAEL MAGUIRE
R.I.P TERRY NEWTON:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_43178.gif |
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| i like phelps yes he had a dodgey game today but so did other s he put his body on the line many of times last season and i think he ll do the same this yr 1 st game back understandable
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: shooter69 "he put his body on the line many of times last season'"
He tended not to IMO, that's the problem with Phelps atm, if anyone breaks the line and he needs to make a 1 on 1 tackle they tend to score. This could become frustrating if he doesn't sort it out as our best back up option is also our best winger.
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3585_1319450311.jpg [img:2n0daa8z]http://riversiders.rlfans.com/images/400X100BANNER.jpg[/img:2n0daa8z]
[quote="tommyfromhull":2n0daa8z]Wigan are quickly turning into the Wigan of old - Arrogant and think they are invincible.[/quote:2n0daa8z]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3585.jpg |
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| First Impressions: Its the same as last season.
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34452_1281604720.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34452.jpg |
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| Quote: Grimmy " I believe O'Loughlin was captain, we may have 5 captains now but we still go silent after conceeding a try.'"
Too true, no one spoke after conceding at try. The bloke next to me shouted 'speak up captains'...
Quite disappointing as i thought there would be more communication
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3076_1671446335.jpg SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg |
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| The "bollocking" captain is a strange one. I'd bet that the ones who want one would be the first to complain at work if they were rollocked in public.
Before I retired I had all sorts of managers, the shouters, the pragmatic, the theorists, the deep thinkers, the innovators, the people men etc
All had their virtues, but the shouters in general got less out of their team than the rest.
Wasn't it Phil Clarke who said that the shouter (captain) was popular with the fans but meant nothing to the players?
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12226.jpg :12226.jpg |
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| Quote: {Hogan} "First Impressions
Agree with that man, I didnt see much different from last season, however its our first hit out so lets all relax! lol
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "The "bollocking" captain is a strange one. I'd bet that the ones who want one would be the first to complain at work if they were rollocked in public.
Before I retired I had all sorts of managers, the shouters, the pragmatic, the theorists, the deep thinkers, the innovators, the people men etc
All had their virtues, but the shouters in general got less out of their team than the rest.
Wasn't it Phil Clarke who said that the shouter (captain) was popular with the fans but meant nothing to the players?'"
I wasn't so much calling for a bollocking as communication. If the team doesn't talk about why they conceeded a try they are unlikely to stop the same thing happening again unless the coach gets a message down. This was clear yesterday as we conceeded plenty of tries through us giving away silly penalties and them shipping the ball out to the wing quicker than our defence would slide. They should be talking about cutting out the daft penalties and either sliding quicker or spreading out more rather than silently watching the opposition knock the conversion over.
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34452_1281604720.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_34452.jpg |
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| Quote: Grimmy "I wasn't so much calling for a bollocking as communication. If the team doesn't talk about why they conceeded a try they are unlikely to stop the same thing happening again unless the coach gets a message down. This was clear yesterday as we conceeded plenty of tries through us giving away silly penalties and them shipping the ball out to the wing quicker than our defence would slide. They should be talking about cutting out the daft penalties and either sliding quicker or spreading out more rather than silently watching the opposition knock the conversion over.'"
Agreed, i wasnt looking for one player to be shouting at the others, but some communication regarding why/how a player got through could have been discussed, in order for the team to understand what to do different next time. The players being silent, doesnt fill the fans with much confidence.
I think Riddell was the only one to say a few words...
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30097.jpg simply the best:30097.jpg |
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| as wakefield scored one of their 8 tries , i noticed lockers just pull his face in disapointment and had a little go at sam regarding the gap the wakefield guy ran through. sam just held his arms out. As if to say what could i do about it . Dont think anything more was said as they were behind the sticks.
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3076_1671446335.jpg SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg |
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| Certainly in the first quarter there were "discussions" between players after their tries.
TBH I never looked closely after that as we were too busy discussing the problems ourselves.. Somebody, it may have been Sam tapped Phelps on his head (an encouragement gesture) after Phelps had made the error for Wakeys last try.
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10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery " Somebody, it may have been Sam tapped Phelps on his head (an encouragement gesture) after Phelps had made the error for Wakeys last try.'"
It was Ainscough which i thought was a nice touch considering Phelps got in the way of what looked like an easy catch for Ainscough.
Just one of those things that. I'd rather Phelps be doing those now and get them out of the way. He had a superb 2nd half to last year and i'd love to see him carry that form through to this year with one or 2 improvments to his game.
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: jameswk "as wakefield scored one of their 8 tries , i noticed lockers just pull his face in disapointment and had a little go at sam regarding the gap the wakefield guy ran through. sam just held his arms out. As if to say what could i do about it . Dont think anything more was said as they were behind the sticks.'"
Aye the dummy runner came inside and our centre (can't remember who it was) took him. Tomkins tried to run outside to get to the guy who got the pass but the dummy runner carried on his run and legitimately got in his way, leaving them with two on one, easy try. I'm not sure who was to blame to be honest, they were both man-marking rather than playing a sliding defence. I didn't think teams used man-marking anymore.
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43178_1281391470.gif WIGAN RLFC
SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 2010
LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010
FLOODLIT 9 CHAMPIONS 2010
U20's VALVOLINE GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2010
BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010
CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010
MAN OF STEEL 2010 - PAT RICHARDS
YOUNG PLAYER OF THE YEAR 2010 - SAM TOMKINS
COACH OF THE YEAR 2010 - MICHAEL MAGUIRE
R.I.P TERRY NEWTON:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_43178.gif |
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| Quote: Grimmy "He tended not to IMO, that's the problem with Phelps atm, if anyone breaks the line and he needs to make a 1 on 1 tackle they tend to score. This could become frustrating if he doesn't sort it out as our best back up option is also our best winger.'"
you must of gone different games to me then pal
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