None of them would get a game.

I dissagree mathers is anything but safe at full back..offers nothing in attack..makes glareing errors (remember wikin making him look stupid) plus others one on one situations he is terrible..he looks scared!...then we get to 2 sending off's plus a 2 match ban for tripping in his first game..come on is it any wonder he gets the stick he does!..Coley might not be great (average at best) but he is involved in the game more than mathers. for me mathers = liability..we can't afford that at full back...scary thought once our line of defence is broken all we have to rely on is mathers..can you honestly say you feel confident mathers will deal with the situation? remember he has had most of his first season and his warm up games this season to prove a point..has he done so? I don't think he has come close.

I would agree with that.

Also I would say that maybe one or two of them have not gone as far as they could as we sold them to clubs they may not have got the most out of them like we may have done if we had kept a few from that list.

Not gone as far as they could as other clubs have not made the most of them? Are you serious? Over the last few seasons I think younger players will have been glad to leave and go to a place that puts some value on them and actually gives them a game. They might not be reaching finals but then neither are we.

As to the original list how may times does it get dragged up completely out of context and not taking into account the circumstances at the time they left?

The best example is Briscoe. The 20/20 was in force then and Rads at full back. It was nothing other than a sensible decision on his part to leave given the lack of opportunity he would have had here and that lack of opportunity was not due to not dropping off form players and so on as is the case with many of of younger players now.

Ashton was offered mega bucks to move on and the rest would not get a game in the current squad anyway. There have been IMO a couple of unlucky players who were let go but that is it.

Dave

I can't blame younger players for wanting to leave. Take Liam Colburn for example he is at an age where he needs first team rugby and good luck to him for making the the move.

I guess what I meant was that if we approached youth development in the same way as Saints and Leeds and breed youngsters for our first team rather than block the path signing average Aussies some players careers may have been a bit different.

aye...go back and read my post in the context of things.

i used mathers as an example to get my point across......i could have used any of about 8 players names.

and about the boo boy??? i dont think that about 7,000 fans were all wrong with the ironic cheer.

i agree with what terry o connor said on boots and all.

its not the talented young uns weve let go, its the talented world class established players that we have failed to replace with players of similar quality.

they mentioned Barrett, Faz, Rads...................look what we have now in those 3 positions alone.
tez did mention the number of wigan born and bred players we had in our successful eras.......ie rads, faz, cass, etc.......so maybe if did keep hold of our home grown talent (like stains and leeds) we might develop em into decent players who had pride in the shirt.

I think Wild would be very useful in the centres for us. Up until he got injured year before last for Huds he was scoring for fun, I also know Noble would of kept him had he of been here and has been trying to get him back since.

Agreed, Wild had an eye for a gap and was quick, i was sad to see him go

Sadly though he was poor prior being allowed to be released never seemed to recover from his injury.

He fell into the worrying trend of making a major impact when he came on the scene but after his initial season his from dropped and once he got the injury he did not seem to recover. It does seem to be something that happens a lot at Wigan, only for other clubs to benefit from this once they are out of the Wigan environment.

However , Jonh, if you look at his defensive stats, errors and penalties for Huddersfield since he left would you want him back?

In a perfect world no, but given that Bailey and Phelps are getting a game at the moment in the secondrow and centre respecivley i would have him back in a heartbeat.

Exactly.



Just because they are home grown though does not mean they will end up world class and it is a myth that Saints have developed home grown talent anyway. Leeds are much better in this respect but Saints have had very few home grown players in their trophy winning sides. What they have been good at is doing what O'Connor said, replacing class players with other class players but they have mostly come from outside the club.

When Lyon went they signed Gidley is an example but the likes of Fozzard, Gilmour, Garnder, Wilkiin, Sculthorpe, Long, Iro and so on did not start their careers with Saints. In fact the sucessful Saints sides of the SL era have, I am sure, always had a majority of bought in players be they from overseas or from the UK. It has worked for them and their players have seemed to have had plenty pride in their shirt despite their origins.

Dave

the point i was making as it ONLY seems to be mathers bearing the brunt of sundays e

7000 fans cant be wrong ? , yes they can .

we need our players to be as confident as possible , what damage are the ironic cheers doing to the lad ?
away fans pick up on it and so it gets worse , oppo teams pick up on it so pepper him with kicks

who ends up suffering for any mistakes ?