As I’ve said before we don’t rely on our props up make meters. It’s definitely tactical.

We use our backs to start sets, secondrows to build sets and generally middles to finish exits sets.

Near the line/in the attacking third we generally use the props to engage the other middles finding certain points on the field to draw in other middles and set up attacking plays.

More often than not if there is an overlap it can be traced to the middle of the field.

In defence they are expected to win the arm wrestle and limit meters by having a higher work rate in this element of the game, I think this is where we have the issue with our middles as they are not managing to dominate/consistently win the wrestle with our current prop rotation.

It may well be tactical but if the backs do not make metres (esp on heavy pitches etc) then we are stuffed as we do seem to have the option to change things up. We were reliant on French to score two individual tries against Salford to get back into the game, but the last ten minutes or so we seemed to up the work rate noticably and get a bit of a roll on and then scored the King try which was by far the best bit of team play the whole game. Wheras for all the pressure at the start of the second half (3 or 4 sets in a row) we never looked like scoring.If plan A doe snot work then plan B seems to fling it to French or Field and hope.

Watching the team so far I cannot see us beating the likes of Leeds/Saint/Warrington or Catalan at the back end of the season in play-off rugby on heavy pitches as we do not have the forward power to get the opponents going backwards both in the fron row and second row and no amount of tactical play will change that with the players we have.

I was going to say, Saints and Wire, fair enough, but Leeds aren't that good. But then, on the other hand, Leeds have beaten Saints and Catalans. But I still don't think they're that good.

Just to emphasize the work done by the Wigan forwards.
We have four of the top twenty tacklers in Superleague, Smithies, Havard, Powell and Farrell.

Two of those some fans want rid of.

I already posted on another thread how our props compare to others in the league in terms of tackles, tackle efficiency and errors and penalties.

They all pale in comparison.

All-round our props do less work than others in the league - a plain fact.

Not looked into this vs minutes played, but not the horrific stats some would have us believe:

Tackles - Marker Tackles - Missed (averages)

Vaughan 25.6 - 4.1 - 0.5
Kasiano 13.8 - 2.2 - 1.5
Mikaele 17.2 - 2.8 - 0.5
Cooper 19.5 - 3.5 - 1.8
Havard 32.8 - 9 - 2.8
Ellis 18.8 - 4.8 - 1

how come byrne hasn't been playing recently, he's been 18th man a few times, he always seems like your most aggressive of forwards

Was carrying an injury in pre-season so probably just easing him in.

because he couldnt burst through a wet paper bag

Four of the pack in the top twenty tackles made
Four in the pack in the top twenty for marker tackles
Only one in the top twenty for missed tackles
Two from the pack in the top twenty for penalties (problem)
Three in the top twenty for errors made, none of them forwards. (problem)

Sort the last two out and we'll be o.k.

Some good stats from last night. Not got them all to hand but off the top of my head, Havard ran for 156 metres and Ellis 120. He’s not a forward but Miski ran for 278 metres (inflated with that long run in the second half but still, that’s massive for us). King did another 140 odd as well.

Kings a work horse, hitting 20 carries and 150m every week, saw him take 2 carries in one set at least once.

5 offloads recorded too.

Sam Powell - 33m / 5 carries (2 DHR) / 26 tackles / 2 missed
Liam Byrne - 72m / 11 carries / 22 tackles / 1 missed
Willie Isa - 77m / 13 carries / 20 tackles / 1 missed
Liam Farrell - 139m / 17 carries / 33 tackles / 0 missed
Morgan Smithies - 63m / 12 carries / 24 tackles / 4 missed
Mike Cooper - 44m / 5 carries / 13 tackles / 0 missed
Kaide Ellis - 120m / 11 carries / 24 tackles / 2 missed
Ethan Havard - 156m / 21 carries / 29 tackles / 1 missed
Joe Shorrocks - 76m / 13 carries / 23 tackles / 1 missed
Brad O'Neill - 40m / 4 carries (2 DHR) / 25 tackles / 2 missed

Some really impressive numbers from Havard and Ellis down the middle. The numbers probably don't do Byrne justice either given how impressive he was in defence in that first half.

I think it's fair to say it wasn't Farrell's best game yet he makes 139 metres, 33 tackles without missing one. If that's you on an off day you're a bloody good player!

Shorrocks justified his inclusion too. Usually that 3rd middle on the bench produces poor attacking numbers and is generally ineffective but Shorrocks made plenty of carries, was energetic in defence and his work off the ball is massively underestimated.

Just seen a little pod cast that said our pack made over 300m more than Leigh last night, must be hell of a long time since we've dominated a side like that, those no.s just back up what we all thought on the night about Havard, superb performance, I thought Ellis had done well also, just that he got overshadowed by Havard