Having a fit & healthy second row helps and apart for SOL Wigan have had a decent record in that regard. In the pool of the second row competition Tuson & HH had question marks over fitness (of late) and it may have been the deciding factor in them leaving. But thats not fair when u have Goulding missing alot of games and a lack of competition in the centres. If Joel Tomkins doesnt make the England squad this year squad we should try & poach him back

Joel will hang on for the 2015 RU world cup...

I haven't watched the game again, but I thought Farrell had a good game and his stats seem to confirm this impression (32 tackles, 179 metres gained in total). You could say he was the best of a poor pack, but when a player has scored a try, made the most metres of any player and put in 32 tackles without missing any - I don't see how he was poor.

He was in the Samoa squad for the WC and always was down to be so yes, correct he's nowhere near the NZ squad?

He's in the top 3 or 4 backrowers in the SL for me and would get so much more recognition in the NRL where they appreciate top workhorse like backrowers more than here. He is a top, top player.

I think realistically we both know he would have played for NZ if he was in with half a shout. I agree that he's a good player, very good by SL standards, but unfortunately that doesn't make him world class in my book. He would br lucky to be named as one of the top 10 back rowers in the world right now, and nowhere near a world 17

I don't think our problem is our 2nd rows to be honest. The way we defend out wide is determined by how we defend on the inside. Each player has to make their defensive decisions based on what the player inside does. Look at Cas and Hull KR and the middle Chanel players are rushing up, leaving it difficult for the edge defenders. Dorn's last minute try was exactly that as our defenders all seemed to anticipate a drop goal. Even as kids, we were taught to number off and move up in a straight line. That's all we need to sort and we'll be hard to break down.
IMO - Hughes is good enough for a good run in the 17 this year and I really believe if he gets a consistent run we'll see a very good second row. He needs time to grow onto his position that's all.

I think in an ideal World we would have sent Hughes out on a season long loan to another SL club this year to develop his game.

An experienced backrow on a 2 year deal would have been an ideal replacement for HH, I still think Costigan would have been a great signing for us.

Brett ferres is a fantastic second rower and would absolutely fit the bill!

What is the situation with Sam Hopkins, he signed from Leigh with a very good reputation and since then I think he appeared in a couple of preseason matches and hasn't been seen since.
He is 23 years old, is a big lad and can play all across the pack, the club have gone in a couple of months from seeming to have an embarrassment of riches in the forwards to scratching about by including recently retired journey men.

According to yesterday's League Express or League Weekly he and Tierney turned up late for training and were made to walk into Wigan in full kit (including gumshields) as their "fine.

I can see a lot of potential in Hughes and as I said I don't think giving him the no 4 shirt was a wise move and it set him back.

However, like Bateman he is one for the future and at the moment we lack the experience and the particular set of skills H brought to the team on that side. It stands out like a sore thumb. As someone else said the squad management has gone wrong here.

As much as Hughes was given the 4 shirt last year, he only played a handful of games at centre and still featured mostly at SR, so I really don't see how it could have set him back.

He was used mainly at centre right up until April though, which presumably means his training was geared towards centre throughout pre-season and the first 2/3 months of the season. He looked like he lost weight in that time to me

This indeed did happen ha. Saw the video on George Williams' Instagram. Quality punishment ha

He looked comfortable in the back row and like a duck out of water in the centre. However few games he played there seemed to affect him.