If we ever want to compete against the aussies we need to develop our game to make sure team's have to develop a wide range of skills to break down a well organised defence.

IMO, we have been far too reliant on quick scoots and penalties gained from percieved holding down at the ptb. As soon as we come up against a good team with excellent defence and fitness (eg australia) then we struggle to gain advantage because we have become too over reliant on quick ptb's to gain an advantage, and - as has been clearly demonstrated over the past world cups, we are completely clueless at reading creative attacking play, and our defence is exposed as we have no experience of consistenly defending against such a varied and skilled attack.

There is a place for a hooker spotting an opportunity to exploit a gap around the ptb, but with our obsession with a lightening fast ptb we have become far too reliant on this.

From a wigan perspective I have enjoyed watching the skill and variety in wigans attack this season far more than many recent seasons and that is due to moving the ball at speed to both sides of the pitch and having players fit and committed enough to provide dummy runners and multiple options. Huddersfield have also played some brilliantly creative attacking football - neither of which has required scooting to get the defence on the back foot. I know which style of rugby i'd rather watch.

If you genuinely think that all Roby can do is take advantage of a QPTB, you need to watch him more.

He's been outstanding all year. He was our best player in the game against you lot - would you say that was a game of quick play the balls?

Out of interest, who do you think is the best hooker in SL?

Roby is the most one dimensional hooker in SL.

Well he's a good shout for our player of the year so far, so he can't be doing too badly with his one dimension in a slow play the ball season to date.

I'd be surprised at that, though admittedly I haven't seen all your games. From the ones I've seen, Graham, KFC & Eastmond have been the standout players.

Again I haven't seen all your games, but Eastmond and, in particular, Graham have been head and shoulders above him from what I've seen. I disagree with him being your best against us too, for what it's worth.

Quote: Geoff "I'd be surprised at that, though admittedly I haven't seen all your games. From the ones I've seen, Graham, KFC & Eastmond have been the standout players.'" He's scored 7 tries already this season and I'd be amazed if there was another hooker in SL making the sort of metres he makes every week. His defence is also immense. He's been great this year. I'm not alone in thinking it either: www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... 359-Roby...

Quote: Geoff "I'd be surprised at that, though admittedly I haven't seen all your games. From the ones I've seen, Graham, KFC & Eastmond have been the standout players.'" He's scored 7 tries already this season and I'd be amazed if there was another hooker in SL making the sort of metres he makes every week. His defence is also immense. He's been great this year. I'm not alone in thinking it either: www.redvee.net/forums/showthread ... 359-Roby...

Most of his metres come around the ruck and I'd be surprised if many of those tries weren't from dummy half aswell.

Wrong. As wide of the mark as you could get. In fact, you are wider than Feka arriss which is WIDE

Well post the stats then! I could just as easily say you're wrong and not give anything to support that view. I'm not neccessarily doubting you but let's see on what you base that opinion.

Where are the stats to back up your blinkered view? Just because Roby is better than most at capitalising on a QPTB doesn't mean he can do nothing else.

If that was all he could do - why has he played wing/halves/loose recently?

Frankly, it's nonsense.

because potter is clueless?

Ignorance is bliss, what absolute drivel.

The PTB is far quicker in the NRL this season whilst the tactics of Hudds and yourselves don't exactly promote quality attacking rugby. You effectively turn it into a wrestling competition and strangle the life out of the game with 8-10 second PTB's. Nothing to do with concern for the game, more concern for your own club and their tactics currently employed.

I don't think anyone promotes dropping to the floor and rolling it back somehow but there's got to be a happy medium, teams being put on the back foot encourages expansive rugby as the halfs get more space.

Anyone that's watched KC over the years know his short passing game near the line is lethal as he sucks in defenders at marker because of his size, yet there was no mention of some quality expansive rugby in the build up to the Ashurst try and the Flannery break etc etc

Not a Saints - Wigan argument by any means but coaches ie Cullen and Morgan aren't happy with the strangulation at the PTB as this years mandate was a quicker ruck.