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Quote: Grimmy "Because as well all know, the referees make the rules
Because they don't get promoted, or have a say.

Or they don't interpret them softly on the field?

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: sergeant pepper "Because they don't get promoted, or have a say.

Or they don't interpret them softly on the field?'"

They're following the rules the clubs have voted for.

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Quote: Grimmy "They're following the rules the clubs have voted for.'"


Ok, I forgot they are completely blameless in all of this.

Nothing like circling the wagons and protecting your own.

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Quote: Jukesays "
No Huddersfield players go down last 20 when they're behind'"

Again; says it all really.

I appreciate your points, Grimmy, and player welfare is of course a consideration but I have to say I'm totally with Jukesy on this one. There are simple answers to something that has become a clear cut problem and a failure to address it would be indicative of the growing disconnect between the sport and it's supporters.

You'd expect the last 20 mins of a game to contain the most stoppages due to fatigue etc. but a team that was going down with head injuries every time the wind blew in the wrong direction when they had a good lead suddenly becomes a team of unstoppable supermen when they're behind on the scoreboard. Go figure!

I'll open another can of worms and throw in set restarts on tackle 1. They need to be an instant penalty (something I believe is already available to the refs). That would stop them overnight.

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg



Quote: sergeant pepper "Ok, I forgot they are completely blameless in all of this.

Nothing like circling the wagons and protecting your own.'"


He's 99% right though

But you hit on an interesting point, You hear me about over complicating stuff etc. when it comes to rules etc.

As soon as you go Full time then the people involved will suddenly find themselves filling that time with more and more of what they do and over complicating it to justify their Full time status.
Now whilst not suggesting that Part-Time for everything is better, there is a Negative side to "Full-Time"

If a referee trained 4 hrs a week he would focus on the basics, referee the game as he sees to the rules
Currently they are analysing stuff 40/50/60hrs a week - In itself no bad thing
But couple that with Coaches who instead of training twice a week for a couple of hours, are now working 14hr days with 10 backroom staff coming up with Minute detail for every aspect of the game, trying to gain that 1%, pushing the rules etc. to the limit whilst referees and rule makers are sat at the other end of the argument looking for ways to nullify anyone trying gain these advantages and suddenly we have a far too Technical environment
In parallel we have as you suggest, both sides of the argument blaming the other when in reality both sides are as big a part of the problem.
You spend 100hrs a week prepping for a game and the slightest thing going against you will Pee you off
You spend 40/50hrs a week prepping to officiate a game and your head could be filled up with all sorts and not what is blatantly obvious/common sense in front of you.
Was never a big fan of the disciplinary changes brought in 10 years or so ago with Grading of charges and minimum/maximum bans for certain grades etc.
We now have people scouring every second of every game multiple times looking for the smallest of things, and then we sit them down and grade them and hamstring people into bracketing situations and defining them into almost pre-determined punishments.
And what do we get at the end of the day? Exactly the same amount of moaning and disagreement about disciplinary issues that we always had.

This is not me giving an answer, just my frustration that, and I admit they are working hard to counter a lot of the coaching/players trying to stretch and bend the rules, that the lawmakers and enforcers already had every tool available needed in their armoury to deal with the situations.
Penalise teams who play act, time waste etc.
Sin bin players who are continually pushing the limits etc.

A few years ago Wakey got to retake a kick at goal at our place after a missed conversion as the Wigan players had advanced over the line.
I'd been saying for years that I'd penalise teams (And Wigan IMO were worse than anyone at the time) for encroaching at a kick. If any player steps over the line Before the ball is kicked at a conversion I'd penalise them and kick under the sticks.

Drop outs - although I like the shot clock it seems refs are prepared to stop the shot clock for fear of having to give a penalty. Lets not forget, when teams were messing about and taking 2mins to take a drop out, we had numerous rule changes brought in before the shot clock to deal with it.
First of all, if you throw the ball away the clock stops, so teams threw the bal back towards the sticks nowhere near the intended kicker and it still took 2mins.
Then the referees started to stop the clock when teams were messing about dropping out, so the team who are messing about get what they actually want which is 2minutes rest before kicking out.
Then we bring in shot clock - Which is ok - But the deterrent was there all along - Just Penalise them

Wigan for a number of years were the worst in the league at scrums - packing down with 5, player comes from other side of field and half way across a player in the scrum that's already one short comes out the scrum and new player goes in and they still only have 5 - Referee stops clock, players mess about for another 20 seconds all the while knowing what they're doing and eventually 2mins later they take the scrum.
Again the Scrum clock helped, but just penalise them

And fans really have a massive part to play
Moaning about obstructions 10 years ago so we write and re-write over and over again "Rules" about catching a ball on inside shoulder or outside shoulder or close to the line stood away from the line etc.etc.. because they want "Consistancy".
Were still no better off and IMO there's as much complaining if not more now than there was 30 years ago. becaue no-one can keep up with referees, lawmakers tweaking the rules and we don't know what they've done because whilst they're full time coming up with all of this most people re working and just want to go to the pub and watch the game in an uncomplicated way.

In a strange way fans and their frustrations as I am talking about with Full time coaches/players/officials & suffer the same because of 24hr social media - Old days, you'd chat with a bloke at work, or have a pint down the pub and agree/disagree over a decision that 9/10 wasn't on the telly to be watched/rewatched a thousand times, and people got on with things (Apart from people with chips on shoulders complaining each team gets the rub of the green, which still happens).
Now, every second is on TV, every second is watched and rewatched thousands of times by thousands of people.
Peoples opinions are everywhere (And I get the irony) and fans read, respond and get worked up over the tiniest little things over and over again.
As the old poet used to say "The public gets what the public wants" and we have to be careful what we wish for.

Anyway - We carry on

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Quote: Jukesays "https://wakefieldtrinity.com/blog/2021/07/14/ceo-statement/?fbclid

great statement

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Quote: sergeant pepper "I think that's the 1st time I've ever agreed with anything Wakey have put out there.

Like I said a couple of days ago, the officials of the game are running it. They are more obsessed with the options of middle class mums who "won't let their little darlings play a sport like rugby" because it's too violent.

I'll say it now - head knocks and long term injuries are part and parcel of the game. I'll go further and say that biff was also a key ingredient in what made the game great. I watched SOO yesterday and the ref ruined it, every time there was a bit of pushing and shoving he sticks the stop clock on etc. It completely ignores the fact those instances got the crowd going, or on a wider points that it's what people want to see. Millions tuned in to see McGregor try and batter someone in the ring last week - there's an audience for violent sport.

Refs (like the one at the weekend) are obviously lads who've never played the game at a high level. They were the runts at school who couldn't get picked, so they take up reffing. They are soft by nature and now they are in positions of power, the game is going to pot.'"



icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif mate, your gonna get some stick for that

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slightly going off topic, but similar

it was a Hudds player a few years ago who took a swan dive under the sticks right in front of us trying to win a penalty / get Wigan player sent off. It really stood out, as it was the 1st time in all the years i have watched RL that i have seen a player fake being tackled to get someone sent off

back onto the topic, there is a growing number of people from within the sport who are speaking out. The game really is in a difficult place at the minute both on and off the field, with players, coaches and owners all in recent weeks speaking out about various things that they are not happy with about the sport (i'm not including fans as we speak out all the time). It really does feel like something has to change

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Quote: Pieman "]


Probably, but can't help but think that it's true.

You have people who haven't/can't put their body on the line for a team. There's a overarching mentality when it comes to rugby players and it's all about not giving an inch and dominating your opposite man. Refs just don't get it, as they can't do it.

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: sergeant pepper "Probably, but can't help but think that it's true.

You have people who haven't/can't put their body on the line for a team. There's a overarching mentality when it comes to rugby players and it's all about not giving an inch and dominating your opposite man. Refs just don't get it, as they can't do it.'"

Presume fans don't get it either then? Most refs have at least played at the same level as most people in the stands. Not to mention been around the game at a high level every week, studied footage in depth far beyond what fans have time to do.

How do you weigh up your comments with the fact that the officials took no actions against Hastings on the day, yet the disciplinary panel (ex top level players who presumably have this understanding you talk about) banned him?

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There are up to five officials on the pitch. How are these officials missing all the stuff that gets cited by the RFL . Are the officials completely incompetent? I don’t think so but the RFL are making them look as though they are with all the lucrative ( for the RFL) citings.

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Quote: Brick with eyes "There are up to five officials on the pitch. How are these officials missing all the stuff that gets cited by the RFL . Are the officials completely incompetent? I don’t think so but the RFL are making them look as though they are with all the lucrative ( for the RFL) citings.'"



Amazing what members of the disciplinary panel see or not see on a video which the match officials do not see on the pitch!

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Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock "I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count" [quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote] Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!" I thanked him and went on my Merry way! RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015! "The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth." Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg





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Quote: Jukesays "https
Couldn't agree more. The offside against Shorrocks last night was a great example of exactly what he's talking about. The ref had decided to give that penalty before the ball was even played. Wasn't offside when the ball was played and even if you want to be pedantic and say he was a few inches offside, is that really a reason to interrupt the flow of the game? We are not talking about "righting a wrong" here. Refs need to recognise that the rules aren't there to be self serving. They are there to help the game.

Spot on with the 6 again on 1st tackle too. Said it earlier in the thread.

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