I don't have an issue with Wane tbh. He kept a lid on it and reading on here but even more so the other forum, there have been some fans that haven't stuck with them but Tomkins has had a pop at an individual and that's out of order.

It's funny because Lenagan can't be too happy. He said on Wigan TV he agreed with every word that Bilko said so Tomkins has bitten the hand that feeds him in more ways then one.

I may be in the minority but I am still of the opinion we have had a poor season when taking the entirety of it into account.

The mast few games do not make up for the dross we have had to watch this year for 90% of the season.

The final few games of the year actually highlight how much from a performance point of view we have underachieved for the bulk of the year.

If players want to run round thinking they are now untouchable they are wrong, especially Tomkins. I think his injury has been a catalyst to the upturn in performance as we actually started to get our sets off to a good start with him no longer strolling towards the line on kick returns of running sideways then dropping off the winger losing us tons of forward momentum. The injury has taken its toll and that is unfortunate but he has hardly covered himself in glory so far on his return.

Does Wane deserve credit for us becoming Champions? Undoubtedly. However I do feel it has papered over some cracks that should not be forgotten.

On the positive side he certainly has earned the right to stay, and prove that the performances we have had to witness at times have been down to wider issues. He has the opportunity to really lay a marker down now and take this squad to the next level. I hope he does, I'm however not going to be won over by a few good performances at the end of the season to make me think all of a sudden it's been a great year.

Jury is still out for me but the playoff series has earned him the right to prove he can coach a team that play at a consistent level of good quality throughout the year.

Perhaps - I've said on the other forum that for all the criticism he has shouldered for the quality of RL, he should reap the praise for the brilliant (seems ironic after Sam T"s comments) never-say-die attitude he has instilled in our players. That got us the win last saturday. I've called myself out before as someone who called for his head on here - I'd buy him a pint now if I saw him!

Pretty much how I feel, however when I say it out loud it sounds absurd after winning the grand final.

There's two issues, one is that SL as a spectacle is poor, it's been the most forgettable season I can remember. That said the very low standard has enabled us, with all the injuries, with an attack that barely outscores our points conceded to finish second and win the GF. What I don't want is for us to use the overall low standard of SL to paper over where we have lacked this year. I desperately hope we can stay relatively injury free to see if Wane can get us firing and turn us into a serious attacking threat and entertain while doing it. I say this because we have struggled to break down good defences for much longer than the last 6 months. We've been predictable and over reliant on certain players.

Wane has worked wonders with our defence, the team spirit and willingness to work for each other is phenomenal. That said it's 50% of the equation, the fact that was enough this year should not mask the fact that even with the injuries, we were abysmal for way too much of this season and the potential improvement is massive, it should be and has to be a priority to fix.

I'm pretty sure Sam regrets his comment now, not the smartest thing to say and he does seem to bite on Twitter occassionally. I don't think there was any malice intended, but fair play to Bilko if it fired up the team to win a championship!

Sam shouldnt be saying those kind of things imo, he could have easily sent bilko a private message without the world seeing

On subject, i dont think micky mac's tweet on sat was the most appropriate either - talk about giving wire motivation for the next time they play us!

I think he can be pretty proud of himself. As a normal fan just making a heat of the moment comment it must be crazy to think that the side has clearly used that as a big motivating factor in winning the big one. It's probably our finest trophy victory in decades.

Well done Bilko I say.

The week I said that three articles appeared in local paper blasting "critics", which was fair enough, but find it bizarre it's been dragged up still a over six weeks on. Anyway my point was more that Wigan could actually have rumbled on lost to both Hull and Warrington (after a poor July and August) and still won two games to be champions. In hindsight now they didn', which is nice.

People want the quality of rugby to be high all season and yet tell me that the LLS is worthless. Which is it? Do the team try to peak for the playoff and GF or do they aim to play perfect rugby all season and win the LLS?

It seems to me that Wane and the staff got it right, just as Leeds have done in pretty much all of their GF winning seasons (two from 5th place remember). If we are going to criticise the team and staff them at least keep it consistent and think about what you really want.

If people don't want to watch rugby league then don't buy a season ticket, but this season has seen plenty of brilliant games (the Hull KR/Salford game was just fantastic). Wigan won at the death so many times it is untrue. In Waney's first season we won by 50+ so many times and walked the LLS but ultimately lost the playoffs to Leeds. All the experts on here said it was because we hadn't won enough tight games and the team wasn't battle hardened. The league was poor. Now because the league is competitive and Wigan have to scrap for every victory, often with 10 players missing, people are still complaining about what's on offer.

It seems to me that Waney can't win with some people.

That pretty much sums it up for me. It's a sport where peaking at the right time is what matters. The rest of the season you simply have to do enough to put you in a position to give you a chance.

Just a thought. This season is the first time Wigan haven't been to Florida pre-season training for a while. Could that have had an effect on the poor ball skills particularly early on in the season, but also toughened them up physically and mentally for the grind to the end. It may be one to ask Wane, Rads and Mark Bitcon.

There's peaking, and looking clueless, we needed the in-between for more of the season.

I don't know whether you are harsh or provocative or both.

Case in point, in the middle of June we won a game at Widnes 7-0. But we had Nick Gregson, an Under 19 second rower, playing at Stand Off for heavens sake. Why would you criticise a team for looking 'clueless' under such circumstances. It was noticeable when Sam got in the team how the team looked much better, but fans are busy re writing history on that now that Sam is public enemy No 1. In fact around that time we gave debuts to Bretherton, Wells, Gregson, Shorrocks, Waterworth and Higginson - all of whom looked pretty much out of their depth (understandably).

When Wane said that you don't know the half of it - why don't you believe him? How can you practise attacking moves if everyone is injured???

A 'dislike' tinged with visceral loathing.

At present they are turning circles trying to excuse themselves for some of their comments earlier this season. One or two, meanwhile, are standing proud on those opinions, insisting the OT win had little, if anything, to do with Wane.

We all had concerns, but bare-faced churlishness never looks good.

the attack did not work because our basic ball skills were beneath that of an under 8's team. Balls from dummy half were all over the place. Passes in general play were awful and that broke down the attack. it had nothing to do with who or who was not in the squad. they are all professional rugby players and they should be able to pass a ball properly. just watch back some of the older games especially widnes and you will get my drift. As for ST he has been a journey man all season who in my humble opinion has added nothing but petulance on the field and nothing in skill. he looked something like when we went down to 12 men at Warrington. ST needs some serious man management skills as clearly has no awareness of how his behavior on and off the field effects those around him. We won the GF and that is great but as I have already posted I expect to watch good level of rugby all year. 2016 has substandard across the board, I have never turned a SL game off SKY and I have done this year for the first time. I have not gone to Wigan games for the first time this year as did not want to watch the dross were serving up. If that is something you are willing to accept that is your choice, I will by a GF ticket and be done. If too many others do that and I am not alone then attendance drop, salary cap spend reduces and we have a problem.