I've always admired Richards but, looking through the eyes of an opposition fan, I've never felt him to be such a threat that his absence would seriously undermine your chances in a game against us. I could give a list of players - past and present - that would certainly tick that box. Then again, there are players that give so much more to a side than just on-field performance. You lot are in a far better position to comment on that aspect of his spell with you.

Pat Richards is a legend in my eyes because there is more to that status than simply his skills as a player (though see later for my opinion on that). Things like commitment and attitude count. Players like Gene Miles were better players. So was Barrett and I am glad I got to see those two amongst many other talented players play for Wigan but they aren't legends. They weren't here long enough to reach that status and commitment to the club is IMO certainly a prerequisite for legendary status.

Pat Richards came here for all the right reasons. He just won a GF back home in Oz and could have stayed there but he chose to use the opportunity his skills gave him to sample a different life overseas. That was his prime reason for coming here and that is something I admire.

When he got here he didn't wimp out and want to run off home as soon as it rained. He even signed new contracts and honoured them. Something else to be admired.

He has also never given the impression of being anything else other than a true professional. I can't remember one rumour about him falling out with any coach, player or any off-field antics that would sour his reputation.

On the field I think the opinions in this thread are being coloured by his recent form and he certainly is slower than he was but once he was moved to the wing from centre in his first season I think he has been an excellent modern day type of winger. I even remember Dallas, who was out injured, being quoted as fearing he wouldn't get his place back given how Richard's went on the wing. That was in Richard's first season when he was supposed to be poor. He wasn't; he was only poor until he was moved to the wing. His goal kicking speaks for itself and he has won MoS when the [iplayers[/i voted for him to win that award IIRC. I think there is a lot of damning with faint praise going on here regarding his ability as a player.

Was Offiah a better winger? Yes but he was a freak. I watched Ferguson as well (who I reckon was the best of the lot of those who I have actually seen) but like many Aussies of that era he was only a part time Wiganer. IMO Richards is easily in the same bracket as Henderson Gill and given Richards commitment and professionalism over his time here it is a no brainer for me to view him as a legend.

Whilst I don't disagree with a lot of your assessment, I don't think he is a legend. A great servant to the club, a nice bloke, but not a legend.

For me a winger has to be someone who, if you give them a clean run in to the line, they will convert 95% of the time. Richards was never that player.

We are going to struggle replacing his kicking though, that's for sure, and there are times when this has won us the match.

Do you think Shaun Edwards is a legend? Arguably he isn't the best scrum half or stand off Wigan have had in recent times yet he is in the Hall of Fame. He is a legend for me because of his unyielding desire to win and single minded professional approach to the game as well as his commitment to the club. Very similar attributed to Richards.

It is not all about skill and as to Richard's strike rate he was the leagues top try scorer in 2010 with 29 so I am not sure what more could be asked. Richards is also the first Aussie in our clubs history to score more than 1000 points for Wigan , has been the leagues highest points scorer in a season and holds the club record for most points in a season. The more you delve into the statistics the more his value as a player becomes apparent.

[iIt is not all about skill and as to Richard's strike rate he was the leagues top try scorer in 2010 with 29 so I am not sure what more could be asked. Richards is also the first Aussie in our clubs history to score more than 1000 points for Wigan , has been the leagues highest points scorer in a season and holds the club record for most points in a season. The more you delve into the statistics the more his value as a player becomes apparent.
[/i
Richards is a Wigan legend, no doubt in my mind.

Quite often we don't appreciate these 'legends' until after they have retired from playing.

In the very late 1960s, I used to also follow Manchester City. It was only later we appreciated the likes of players like Colin Bell to legend status.

Later we could say the same for Sean Edwards.

While they are playing, it might seem 'not the thing to do' to assign legend status. But it is then,afterwards, that we compare them more fully I think .

For me, Pat Richards will probably achieve legend status. He is still a 'points machine' and just for his kicking, he is in with the Boticas and Sullivans for me.

I will have to ask my Dad about the when Jim Sullivan achieved his status from the Wigan fans in general.

You did not recognise the genius of Nijinsky at the time!!!!!!

Edwards was one of the best support players I have seen. Arguably the best scrum half Wigan have had since the 80's.

Opinion of course but I still don't think that makes Richards a "Legend". Ultimately it's about performance on the pitch- that's what we pay to see at the end of the day.

That said I have the utmost respect for Graeme West, as much for the off-field side of things as on them.

Oh aye, we knew Colin Bell was good. But it's like when we now look back at the Edwards and Gregory partnership, and then compare with what we have had since. The 'legend' status builds over time I think.

Often we know when someone is good .

I am too young to have viewed Nat Lofthouse, but it is only recently that they have erected a statue in his memory.

One thing I have noted though, is that great players, be it in footie or Rugby League. Seem to have all the time in the World. Brett Kenny for example at Wembley 1985, he seemed to go in slow motion.

If Pat isn't a legend then it must be a very small group. I missed the Boston / Ashton era so since then:

Certs
West
Farrell
Edwards
Bell
Rads
Colin Clarke
Hanley

Possibles
Greg
Betts
Connolly
Fairbairn
Ashurst
Offiah
Gill
Hampson
Doc Murray (sorry couldn't resist)

Going O/T a little:

Is Sam Tomkins a Wigan legend / Could Sam Tomkins be a Wigan legend?

If so:

Now.
In years to come.

??