SBW has played the majority of his rugby at inside it's only recently he has been playing on the wing for the All Blacks, I would think Joel's most effective position would be in the as well in Union. Willie Mason is an example of a league prop forward playing in the backs for union just highlights how much slower their game/players are compared to league.

I don't think the loss of JR is much different to Leeds losing Chev Walker or Lee Smith. Leeds got over that Ok.

I wouldn't blame Joel for taking the money what's important is that we understand why, learn from it and move on which is what I think IL is doing.

As for comments about this being payback time for RL I'm having none of it. I am pretty sure that whereas now RU are recruiting players developed in a rigorous programme RL weren't getting the benefit of that from the players we recruited. I don't much care for RU and for me the problem is that the game doesn't allow talent to shine either through its nature or by design. As I say can't blame the lad for taking the money - £400 k to become a t**t is tempting but is he prepared for the inevitable criticism from the likes of Barnes, Guscott and Morris.

Yes I know. I was just joshing.

With regards to Joel, as i've said earlier in this thread, I see him as an outside centre. He's potentially a better player than Tindall and would fit naturally into that role.

Thinking about it, I think he would fail in Rugby Union, sure he might earn a decent wedge and get the promised England cap but I don't think he runs hard enough anymore, in 2010 he did do, early in the year he was average at 2nd row and wasn't running or tackling hard enough. Once shifted to the centres he did a steady job and helped us out but I don't think he would be effective at centre in RU, his attacking game consists of running his winger out of space and one hand flicking it back inside to Charnley, IMO RU centres have to have the ability to do a few crash balls back into the ruck area from time to time and I don't think he has the aggression and doesn't run hard enough to do so, he would do well in defence as all RL players do as we have the sliding defence engraved into our mindset.

For an RL player to do well at Union they need to have the strength of mind to ignore the critics, the intelligence to learn the game and all it's rules and the hunger and heart to suceed as your looking at 2 years of learning the game in order to do what your capable of, you had the freakish talent in Robinson but who else has took to RU in less than 2 years, most come back to RL a shadow of the player they were

I don't think Joel would make it in RU and needs to make his mind up asap as he will be going down in the estimations of all the Wigan fans. On another note I think Sam might do well in RU at fullback.

Seeing that he only started 2 games in the pack in 2011, I would suggest that your criticism is unfounded.

Think he started 4 at 2nd row but only finished one game there (Saints in Cardiff?)

What it shows is how much Gleeson was a major loss to Wigan.

Joel wouldn't have played so much at centre. He wouldn't have scored that try at Wembley and as such wouldn't have seemed such an attraction to Rugby Union Clubs.

Great post!

The loss of Gleeson was the worst knock we got last year by a long way...

Agreed, he was fantastic in 2010. I think we still miss Piggy too, but that's a different matter altogether!

Gleeson currently has no club and we need a new .........

I would blame Mathers. If he could actually play at FB, then we wouldn't of needed to get rid of him and then move Sam to FB. Which wouldn't have resulted in Finch being brought over and him having to bring Hoffman with him as they can't live without each other, resulting in Gleeson becoming jealous and then...

"Joel wouldn't have played so much at centre. He wouldn't have scored that try at Wembley and as such wouldn't have seemed such an attraction to Rugby Union Clubs"

which is what i posted earlier in not so many words.

at 2nd row he would have gone largely un noticed by the rah rah boys

For all his problems part of me still prays he has sorted himself out, his fall out was more with Maguire then Wane or Lenagan and we'd sign him back.

The sensible part of me says though this guy is a waster and a leopard doesn't change it's spots and by taking him on would ruin a lot of hard work Maguire and the staff put in to make the place a hardworking and professional environment.

And who did he fall out with over on Humberside ?

The game in general is short of centres at the moment but I suspect that Mr.Gleeson isn't too bright a lad.