Loose forward is pretty much the same position as prop these days for a lot of teams. Why do you think we see Thompson, Graham, Cuthbertson, LMS all run out at loose? The game has moved on from the days when the Loose Forward was more of a third halfback. You do realise Havard has already played three games for us at loose this year, with Partington playing another three?

It’s part of the reason why the game has gone backwards
You can have Havard at 13 I’ll have SOL or Andy Farrell it god forbid Hanley
Havard is a prop
Havard has never been nor ever will be a 13. This middle shoite is just an excuse for poor and lazy coaches
LMS as a 13??????? A nobody who good luck to the lad had made a living out of the game

Alright let's sign Ellery Hanley in his prime then. I forgot that was an option, a great point well made.

I’ll Let you keep middles and I will keep props, second rowers and a loose forward
Middles are for lazy coaches and coaches with no faith in their players
It’s a game of 13 individuals
In your future there won’t be any Andy Farrell’s
That’s the primise of my argument
The game is simple
It’s 13 individuals versus 13 where a guy needs his teammates when he can’t cope
It needs specialists in their areas to make this happen

The top props in the NRL average over 150 m per game, in a much tougher comp. Jason Taumalolo (admittedly, a freak) averages over 200! And in a relatively poor side, too, who did not make the top eight.I find it hard to understand why we can't find props who will do similar in SL.

Those top props, of course, include the un-crocked Burgess that Souths wisely kept.

Trying to think of how French can get his hands on the ball more I did think of putting him at 13 with zak at 1. I prefer a ball playing 13 like you, but with our pack as light as it is we ideally need a 3rd prop there otherwise we'll get bullied even more.

They are all lazy sods who think they are all ball-playing 13s.

I think all but 2 of our 'props' have been played at 13 and they all suddenly think they are Sean O'Loughlin.

Very good but we don't have an Andy Farrell, and I don't think there are many (if any) players of that mould in the game now, it's moved on by requiring all forwards to have an element of ball handling to their game, and the loose having to take on more of the workload making the hard yards. It's not exciting but it's effective.

Realistically your options at loose next year are:

- Bateman, Farrell, Smithies - none of which are the ball player you want, and they're not going to help our size problem
- A player you would consider a prop - my suggestion because it helps make up for our lack of size
- A non-marquee signing - I can't think of anyone in the mould you are looking for, particularly not a player who wouldn't be a marquee

To be fair, they calculate meters gained differently in the NRL. They calculate it from where the ball carrier gets the ball, where as we only count meters gained, I think. Post contact meters is probably a better barometer for judging go forward when it comes to NRL forwards.

Those are false figures. They count the metres from the point the player catches the ball, we count the meters gained over the advantage line. Your comparing oranges with apples.

With the evolution of the full back role, there is no need to have an extra pivot at 13 anymore. It's nothing to do with lazy coaches.
Farrrell would still be a back rower in the modern game, as would SOL if he came through now, as their physical attributes are suited to that position.
Hanley would still be a centre or a stand off now, as he was in his prime.

Why have we retained SOL then?
He patently cannot play regular minutes nor be considered for selection on a regular basis.

It could be argued that he was a loose forward in his prime. He played in that position for both Wigan and in the NRL.