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The salary cap hasn't created a more competitive league, far from it.
There are 5 clubs who don't spend the £1.65m and they've no chance of winning anything. So the "level playing field" is out of the window!
Wigan won the first GF the rest have been won by clubs who run benefit trusts, image rights companies, overseas accounts etc. Namely Saints, Bradford & Leeds. Spending the £1.65 alone as Wigan do is not nearly enough, that is why those three clubs have 3-4 International Class players more than Wigan and a whole squad full of quality players more than those not spending the £1.65m.
The salary cap is not just a failure it's a disaster.
It should be abolished and clubs forced to make a profit. League points to be deducted for making an after tax loss!
That way clubs could invest in players all they like and they would be prevented from going bust!
Clubs turning over £5-6m and only investing £1.65m on first team players is a massive underinvestment. This problem needs to be dealt with.

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It's been fun.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44480.jpg







boooooooooooooooo

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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: Badwanger "Given that JD swapped and changed from FB to C, take your pick between Gidley, Webb, Senior or Wellens.
'"


Sorry but I'd go for Davies every time ahead of those players (especially in Davies favoured FB role, I also thought Davies was class at stand-off, don't recall him playing at centre much). Gidley would run him closest (in terms of quality as a player, I'm not saying Davies was a better centre, but that wasn't Davies' position), Webb hasn't really delivered his initial promise, Senior's past his prime but was never as good a player as Davies. As for Wellens, well you're having a laugh aren't you? More sig material.

Quote: Badwanger "That's rich. It is you who has a problem with SL!'"


I have "a problem" with the CC. Not with the merits of my own team.

Quote: Badwanger "Aye, I was there and Saints were robbed thanks to certain Mr Holdsworth gifting Wigan two points for Hunte being offside when Saints had the ball!!'"


Not quite how I remember it, but since your argument is that Saints should have won a game against one of the greatest club sides in RL history, thanks for supporting me!

Quote: Badwanger "And what will that achieve apart from you saying that Wigan player X is better than Saints player Y and me saying the opposite? When, in reality we both only saw the opposition team a small fraction of the time compared to the amount of times which we saw our own team play. So neither of us can therefore give an accurate assessment let alone an unbiased one!'"


Quote: Badwanger "What it will show is that your team was a great side in that they were capable of competing on pretty even terms with one of the all time great sides of club RL. Probably the most underrated club side in modern history.'"


Quote: Badwanger "However, having watched over 90% of the games from both those season, I can say with 100% certainty that the 2006 Saints team was a class apart from the Saints team of 1992/93. Sure, the backs were comparable (I'd still give 2006 the edge) but the 2006 forwards were immense compared to their 1992/93 counterparts.

Also, what you need to remember is that the 1992/93 season was played in Winter (which is a great leveller) and when defences were only 5m apart therefore giving the advantage to the defending team. In 2006, the game was played on faster, harder pitches with a 10m defensive line.

I'm disrespecting nothing. It was a very good Saints side but it's laughable to compare it to the team of 2006.

Or perhaps you could say that the 1992/93 season was a season where that squad over-achieved and in the following years they found their level?'"


I think the 92 backs WERE stronger. You're right about the forwards. I don't think its "laughable" to compare the two teams. It probably was a better side overall though than the 92 side but I can't understand why you can't accept a compliment about your 92 side, I am a Wigan fan telling you that was a great side. Its bizarre. The fact you think its worthy of sig status is amusing. As is the fact that you include my reference to the 2009 side (a good team, it may be running away with the SDL but that's more down to the mediocrity of the opposition than the current Saints team being exceptional - come on, be honest, admit it! icon_lol.gif ).

Getting back to the 2006 side, I do think the Saints 2006 side is a little overrated. If the star players in your side, the ones that look like your best players, include players of limited phsyical gifts like Wellens - though 100% effort and great positional sense, I'm not saying he isn't good, simply that he isn't great - then you can't really claim that the 2006 side is up there with say Wigan from the early-mid 90s, the great Aussie teams like Canberra in the days of Meninga, Daley, Clyde et al or the great Brisbane sides of the 90s.

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Dropkick Murphy..we actually saw and heard a mass of bouncing and scarf and flag waving to Dale Cavese that drowned out anything we could muster.. It stopped us singing our own celebratory songs, it died out seconds later when we accepted we couldn't be heard over the Wigan lot Celebrations muted from us, job done from them. Most fans who slag them off are jealous their own club's support is nowhere near that good - sally cinnamon..Why not discuss Wigan? It's a rugby league message board. Wigan are the most famous brand in rugby league - Tre Cool..Saints fans are hopeless unless it's a cup final or grand final. Wigan fans are so much more loyal and passionate - the flying biscuit..Wires havent been massively succesful over the years, but I've spoke to Brian Bevan And he spoke to me and i wouldnt swap that for Wigans History, ever - Ande..on the TV i could only hear the Wigan fans with about 10 to go - Saint94..Every team is in your feckin shadow, we all know - FIOS:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39110.jpg



Quote: Father Ted "The salary cap hasn't created a more competitive league, far from it.
There are 5 clubs who don't spend the £1.65m and they've no chance of winning anything. So the "level playing field" is out of the window!
Wigan won the first GF the rest have been won by clubs who run benefit trusts, image rights companies, overseas accounts etc. Namely Saints, Bradford & Leeds. Spending the £1.65 alone as Wigan do is not nearly enough, that is why those three clubs have 3-4 International Class players more than Wigan and a whole squad full of quality players more than those not spending the £1.65m.
The salary cap is not just a failure it's a disaster.
It should be abolished and clubs forced to make a profit. League points to be deducted for making an after tax loss!
That way clubs could invest in players all they like and they would be prevented from going bust!
Clubs turning over £5-6m and only investing £1.65m on first team players is a massive underinvestment. This problem needs to be dealt with.'"


It's a shame to say I agree with you.

The SC has ruined the quality of the game, sure we get more freak results and stuff but who cares, every sport has it's top clubs I am not saying we have to be one of them, but untill everyone spends the full cap the SC is useless and makes things worse. The only way to get a level playing field is to do it like the NFL in the USA but we are not capable of doing this. We should have no cap but you should have to make a profit and all current super league applications should still be based on stadia and all the various other attributes but also on finances and turnover.

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[quote="Deano G":wqb36lm9]Come to think of it, that Saints side (1992/93) was a better side than the 2006 side and the 2009 side.[/quote:wqb36lm9]:



Quote: Deano G "Sorry but I'd go for Davies every time ahead of those players (especially in Davies favoured FB role, I also thought Davies was class at stand-off, don't recall him playing at centre much). Gidley would run him closest (in terms of quality as a player, I'm not saying Davies was a better centre, but that wasn't Davies' position), Webb hasn't really delivered his initial promise, Senior's past his prime but was never as good a player as Davies. As for Wellens, well you're having a laugh aren't you? More sig material.'"


Shock, horror!! Wiganer in "I don't rate Wellens" posting.

All I will say is look at Wellens' individual medal haul.......

Quote: Deano G "I have "a problem" with the CC. '"


And don't we know it!

Quote: Deano G "I think the 92 backs WERE stronger. You're right about the forwards. I don't think its "laughable" to compare the two teams. It probably was a better side overall though than the 92 side but I can't understand why you can't accept a compliment about your 92 side, I am a Wigan fan telling you that was a great side. Its bizarre. The fact you think its worthy of sig status is amusing. As is the fact that you include my reference to the 2009 side (a good team, it may be running away with the SDL but that's more down to the mediocrity of the opposition than the current Saints team being exceptional - come on, be honest, admit it! icon_lol.gif

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rlRugby League loses another International to Union as a result of the salary caprl

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[b][color=#0000BF]SUPPORT • SPONSOR • PLAY • JOIN A MIDLANDS RUGBY LEAGUE SUCCESS STORY //www.coventrybears.co.uk[/color][/b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_23564.png



Quote: RB "rlRugby League loses another International to Union as a result of the salary caprl'"


icon_rolleyes.gif

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That rumour's been around for a while but it doesn't make any less disappointing that he will go.
Leeds have invested a lot of time and money in Smith as do all clubs in their youth players. I just feel that clubs should be protected from this. Leeds are financially far wealthier than Wasps but for the salary cap they could pay him his market value and keep him.
Another reason he may be going is that his head coach will be Shaun Edwards. Perhaps he prefers the opportunity of being coached by Edwards rather than McLennan.
A big loss for Leeds and a big loss for Rugby League.

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:2960.jpg



Quote: Father Ted "That rumour's been around for a while but it doesn't make any less disappointing that he will go.
Leeds have invested a lot of time and money in Smith as do all clubs in their youth players. I just feel that clubs should be protected from this. Leeds are financially far wealthier than Wasps but for the salary cap they could pay him his market value and keep him.
Another reason he may be going is that his head coach will be Shaun Edwards. Perhaps he prefers the opportunity of being coached by Edwards rather than McLennan.
A big loss for Leeds and a big loss for Rugby League.'"


Do we know that the reason he's leaving is purely cash? Perhaps he's just attracted by the opportunities there are in International RU?

Very sad though, good player.

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[b:2boqkfe7][color=#800000:2boqkfe7]WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024 SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2023 & 2024 CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024 LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020, 2023 & 2024 ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 & 2024 WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018 BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2024 CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012 [/color:2boqkfe7][/b:2boqkfe7]:



Quote: RB "rlRugby League loses another International to Union as a result of the salary caprl'"


Pages 4-6 are pretty funny icon_lol.gif

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Dan Sarginson: "This is a fantastic opportunity for me to join the biggest name in the competition" 18/10/2013 Tony Clubb: "This is a new exciting chapter of my life signing for Wigan and I couldn't be happier" 18/10/2013 Romain Navarrete: “I’m very happy to have signed for Wigan Warriors. As soon I knew that Wigan were interested, they were the only team that I wanted to sign for. To me, Wigan is the biggest Club in Rugby League and it will be an honour to pull on the famous Cherry-and-White jersey next year. I look forward to working with Shaun Wane and the players at Wigan.”:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10172.jpg



Quote: RB "rlRugby League loses another International to Union as a result of the salary caprl'"



That link's not working.

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Quote: Smooth Stu "That link's not working.'"


Probably been deleted because of all the swearing but Lee Smith has signed for Wasps apparently.

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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: Badwanger "Shock, horror!! Wiganer in "I don't rate Wellens" posting.

All I will say is look at Wellens' individual medal haul.......

And don't we know it!

As I said earlier considering I saw over 90% of the games from both those seasons, I'd say I was in a much better position to judge the relative merits and flaws of them compared with someone who probably saw 20% of them (if they were lucky).

Again with the Wellens-bashing!!!

In fact, it's always the same argument ad nausem but with a different Saints player being berated. Over the years we have had comments claiming that just about every Saints player was "average" and that they are made to look good by their "superstar" teammates. One minute, player X is "average", the next he listed alongside his teammates as you try and prove that player Y is "average".

Face facts

Cov Warrior has already dealt with your point about Wellens' success meaning that he is a great player.

As for the rest of your post, the comments about me bashing Saints players are so funny I don't think I could have made them up if I'd being trying to parody you.

This thread contains numerous, often bizarre, posts by Saints fans attacking former Saints players and Saints squads, in a desperate but doomed attempt to shore up the remains of the pro-CC argument.

Given all the abuse heaped upon Saints players and squads by Saints fans on this thread, to then accuse a Wigan fan of bashing Wellens is unbelievable.

Especially as all I was doing was saying that he is a limited player physically - there is no substitute for pace and Wellens isn't and never has been quick - and this stops him, despite all his other attributes as a professional, from being a great player.

I wasn't saying he is "rubbish" or "garbage" or using any of the ridiculous expressions Saints fans have used on this thread about their own players. Wellens is a quality player; a very good player indeed by the dismal standard of FBs in the Soopah Doopah era. He is not however one of the all time greats.

The suggestion that Wellens is on a par with Davies is astonishing. Davies was a tremendously talented player, a superb rugby brain, great hands, quick and elusive. I had the privilege of watching Davies play against the great Wigan sides as well as in internationals. He never looked out of his depth. If only you could say that about Wellens and indeed most of his Soopah Doopah England team mates, then maybe we'd have a fighting chance against the Aussies, instead of receiving the inevitable pummelling. I am absolutely dreading the 4 Nations.

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The Communist Cap - dragging down success and aspiration to the levels of those who cba.:



Tbh even attempting to compare Wellens to Davies is embarassing.


It's like comparing a Ford Focus to an Aston Martin.

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