To be honest, I don't think we're far off being in agreement, certainly regarding Farrimond's main strengths. I just don't think you can instantly write off a pairing based on what their main strengths are.

I do have to take issue regarding Edwards though. He was always a capable organizing half throughout the entirety of his career, not just at the end of it. He played scrum half many, many times for the great Wigan sides very successfully. Didn't he also Play for England, and England schoolboys before that, as a 7?

It’s slightly different but kind of emphasises the point.

I watch Trinity a lot and they run with Gale and Lino at 6 & 7. Both are half backs rather than 5/8ths.

Trinity are so dominant in the Championship particularly their pack and they normally play on the front foot but because they have 2 halves they are not hammering teams in the way they should be because both halves tend to do the same thing and get in each others way they don’t compliment each other because they are both natural organisers.

Wigan at the moment are Smiths team. He is the man, he may not get the plaudits of French but he’s the heartbeat of this team.

Luai is leaving Penrith because he now wants to run a team which he will never get the chance to do at Penrith….all be it the money is a big draw too in his case.

But isn't that due to those respective players skillsets being more clearly defined as NK points out? Williams has never been an effective organizing half and French has always been predominantly a runner. Long's abilities in either camp wasn't stifled by the existence of the other. Neither were many great halves. We could both rhyme off the Thurstons, Johns etc who had both without it impacting on either part of their game.

Now, I'm obviously not putting Farrimond in that company at this stage of his career but it certainly shows the principle.

My initial comment was in regard to who replaces Field now.

If we pair Farrimond as he is at this moment in time with Smith and run with French at 1 I think we will have issues and lose strike.

My point was I don’t think they work now or rather we have more effective ways of solving the issue.

For me Smith and French need to play 7 & 6.

We need to test other options over moving French to 1 before pairing Smith and Farrimond at the current time.

Don’t agree re Thurston he was a great organiser and could pick a pass. His running game not really a strength.

Johns had it all but again played his best when partnered with his brother who was a great foil for him at club level.

You're seriously suggesting this guy didn't post a running threat?

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You've just lost all credibility with that statement mate! You do realize that Thurston often played 6, don't you?

I agree for the most part but I do think you're underestimating Farrimond's running game. Obviously I've only limited experience of him myself but he seems to be a pretty rounded player from what I have seen. I guess we'll see going forward.

That’s the point, going forward….not for the next 8 weeks whilst Field is out.

Back to Field and French for that matter, anyone else think the club should say right lads we really need you two to do a proper pre-season ?

I’m guessing as part of their new deals whilst it may not be written into their contracts they will have a gentleman’s agreement with the club that they are allowed to preseason in Australia.

From what I understand it was always that French and field checked in with the club on their fitness. I be reluctant to force it on them however maybe it could be adapted maybe. Maybe more stringent like booking them in with PT’s physios whilst over there. May already happen

There always looks to be zero worries with Field, he's as fit as a fiddle and looks like it comes naturally to him. French didn't look to come back in the best of condition but he's a freak and very quickly seems to get in better shape when he starts playing. He's benefitted IMO from being heavier with him playing in the line now, although that will be tested more if he stays at fullback in these next few weeks.

Ultimately the arrangement looks to work really well for all parties concerned. I'm pretty sure that without it they wouldn't be here, so we can't complain.

It wasn't his main strength but that doesn't mean he didn't have a running game Jon! That's exactly the point of this discussion. One doesn't preclude the other. It's quite possible to have both. The credibility comment is because you claimed that Thurston didn't have a running game and was merely an organiser. Check out some of his tries. They're world class! You can't say "yes but they don't count because his organizational skills were even better". I'm sorry if you took offense at that comment (it wasn't my intention to offend) but do you think that to say a man with his try scoring record didn't have a running game is a credible viewpoint? He scored over a hundred career tries at just short of 1 every 3 games in the best comp in the world! He did it at every level, including SOO and international level.

With regards to playing split halves, you still have to have running threat there to be world class otherwise it's too easy to defend.

Thurston had a similar try scoring record to Andrew Johns who you readily admit "had it all". How do you think he did that if he was just an organiser? I'm genuinely curious as to how you square that circle.

….but we are talking about his strengths. Like I said he even admits himself he wasn’t a great runner of the ball and it was his ability to pick passes that made his career.

It’s the reason he floated around clubs and didn’t get picked up initially due to his lack of athleticism, that’s from the man himself.

When I think of Thurston I certainly don’t remember him as a strike half back.

It’s all about levels I agree though and again my comment was based on the best way to replace Field for the next 8 weeks.

I don’t think Farrimond and Smith is the right call. Rocky is clearly struggling so I think we need to look at other options.

We have gone from commenting on the ability of an 18 year old to making comparisons with Johns, Thurston etc.

Smith and Farrimond at the moment for me doesn’t work, or certainly we lose significant strike threat moving French to 1 if we replace him with Farrimond.