FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Matty Smith - Best English halfback in Super League |
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65656_1708941604.jpg [size=95:2obtgspq]23 LEAGUE TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]21 CHALLENGE CUPS[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]5 WORLD TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[b:2obtgspq][color=#FF0000:2obtgspq][size=100:2obtgspq]SAYS IT ALL REALLY[/size:2obtgspq][/color:2obtgspq][/b:2obtgspq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_65656.jpg |
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| Quote: Father Ted "Danny Brough is the best English halfback in Super League IMO..'"
Ha ha ha
Seriously ....
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4786 | |
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73327_1685730441.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73327.jpg |
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| Even if he is, he's how old? 34 or something, now. The ship has sailed.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1979 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
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Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: Father Ted "Danny Brough is the best English halfback in Super League IMO.
The fact he had a fall out with McNamara and then decided to play for Scotland shouldn't detract from that.
Hopefully we have had and seen the last of McNamara.
If or when the new England coach takes over he will bring Brough back into the England set up.'"
Danny Brough is a petulant child. He was a very good player a few years ago but because he fell out with the coach don't assume it was the coaches fault. I don't think you could really trust Brough to keep his head in the way that you could trust Matty in a big game. Matty might be having a poor game but his discipline doesn't suffer (he's had one brain explosion, against Widnes, in all time I've seen him playing). Brough can be a liability when he's on one.
If we didn't get rid of Steve Mc last year after losing narrowly to Australia and NZ then we certainly aren't going to ditch him now that we have won a series. A lot was made of NZ missing Johnson, Foran, Mannering et al, but England will have two more Burgesses, Sam T and Jack Reed available (hopefully) next year.
I'm all for stability. Keep Steve Mc in the job for the World Cup then review it. People can point to his poor record in Super League, but isn't he allowed to learn and improve as a coach? His stint in the NRL may well be making him into a decent coach. The players seem happy with him.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15453 | |
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Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| He had a decent game, nothing spectacular but I was glad to see him getting involved where he normally goes missing. The problem of course is that he doesn't really have another gear, that sort of performance is as good as it ever gets for him. Longer term I'd give Williams more control in both the Wigan and England teams and partner him with a flair player
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4786 | |
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Jan 2015 | 10 years | |
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73327_1685730441.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73327.jpg |
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| Surely Williams *is* a flair player?
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15453 | |
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Jul 2005 | 19 years | |
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: moto748 "Surely Williams *is* a flair player?'"
I don't think there's any rule against having two of them together....? As long as one can do the organising which I'm confident Williams will be able to
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 10530 | |
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Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
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Jun 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Really, at test level you need two half backs who can organise, and can do the basics well, at the very least. Flair halfbacks don't really work, unless you get a freak like Johnson, but you look at an unstructured half like Marshall prior to Johnson's ascension, and even he struggled at the highest level.
In short, if you're not a well rounded half you will be exposed at the highest level, and in the biggest games.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1979 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
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Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "Really, at test level you need two half backs who can organise, and can do the basics well, at the very least. Flair halfbacks don't really work, unless you get a freak like Johnson, but you look at an unstructured half like Marshall prior to Johnson's ascension, and even he struggled at the highest level.
In short, if you're not a well rounded half you will be exposed at the highest level, and in the biggest games.'"
Spot on IMO. For example former Man of Steel Rangi Chase. Being the so-called best player in SuperLeague didn't prepare him for what was a step up in standard. He couldn't cope. A bit like Zak Hardaker, who was bang average in the series IMHO of course!
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4786 | |
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| Well, quite. Rangi Chase being, after all, a poor man's Benji Marshall. I'd still have Marshall in my team, though, if he were suddenly discovered to be English!
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Player Coach | 951 | |
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Mar 2008 | 17 years | |
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| TBH England are well short of any dominant half backs that can control a game at test level, especially when you consider what we will face against a fully fit NZ and Australia side
What half back pairing will we be picking next season?
I would have given Like Gale a shot in this series to see if he could step up to the plate
George Williams is a bit like Liam Sutcliffe in that they are both just not quite ready at the highest level,but imo they could be down the line
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Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2008 | 16 years | |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "Really, at test level you need two half backs who can organise, and can do the basics well, at the very least. Flair halfbacks don't really work, unless you get a freak like Johnson, but you look at an unstructured half like Marshall prior to Johnson's ascension, and even he struggled at the highest level.
In short, if you're not a well rounded half you will be exposed at the highest level, and in the biggest games.'"
Don't know if I fully agree about the flair sentiment, if you look at the top performing teams (if they play the 6 off the 7) you have balance with a partnership one who's the organiser etc, more associated with the 7 with a 6 who can offer some flair and maybe more of a running game.
Look at JT for example, arguably the best player in the game, once the organiser to Lockyer, now the flair player with Cronk organising both QLD and AUS. JT has freedom of the park, allowed to read the game playing both left and right side of the pitch, he has the luxury to do this as Cronk is organising the game in communication with JT.
This is the same for NZ with Foran controlling as Johnson roams, again for the Broncos who have Hunt organising with Milford adding flair (this partnership could end up being one of the best in world rugby over the next 5-10years)
Saw the Brett Kenny interview, found it interesting when he discussed JT, saying many players at 6 or 7 are shackled to a structure not allowed to show their flair. He was discussing how half backs would be better and were better in years gone by when they were allowed to be more creative with flair.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 941 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2011 | 13 years | |
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| On the original title...
Not even close. There are at least 10 other HB's i would take out of Super League over him. His overall performances have been poor. 1 swallow doesn't make a summer i am afraid. Nowhere near consistent enough. It' s huge season for him. His kicking game simply has to deliver.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 10530 | |
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Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
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Jun 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Don't know if I fully agree about the flair sentiment, if you look at the top performing teams (if they play the 6 off the 7) you have balance with a partnership one who's the organiser etc, more associated with the 7 with a 6 who can offer some flair and maybe more of a running game.
Look at JT for example, arguably the best player in the game, once the organiser to Lockyer, now the flair player with Cronk organising both QLD and AUS. JT has freedom of the park, allowed to read the game playing both left and right side of the pitch, he has the luxury to do this as Cronk is organising the game in communication with JT.
This is the same for NZ with Foran controlling as Johnson roams, again for the Broncos who have Hunt organising with Milford adding flair (this partnership could end up being one of the best in world rugby over the next 5-10years)
'"
I wasn't saying halfbacks can't, or shouldn't have flair. My point was that they'll be found out in the pressure games if they don't do the basics well, and don't posses any ability to organise the side.
I think game management, and organisational skills should be seen as fundamental for any halfback, and if they can do the fancy stuff then that's a bonus.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 941 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2011 | 13 years | |
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| It's hard to disagree with this. There aren't many around. McGuire doesn't have the pace to make telling breaks any more, Brough relies on his kicking, Smith relies and falls on his kicking. Gale is probably the closest in the league of the senior players. Williams and Sutcliffe are the future, Hampshire will hopefully realise his potential and the lad a Warrington looks a good prospect too.
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International Chairman | 5443 | |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: Cherry_Warrior "On the original title...
Not even close. There are at least 10 other HB's i would take out of Super League over him. His overall performances have been poor. 1 swallow doesn't make a summer i am afraid. Nowhere near consistent enough. It' s huge season for him. His kicking game simply has to deliver.'"
English ones? Name them.
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