True. It probably says a lot about Wigan’s scouting and junior development, they’re only bringing through “pivots” with no nous rather than developing proper halfbacks.

I saw this last season with regards scholarships, they had their pick of 3 halfbacks. 1 was a very good organiser who would organise the team all game, 1 was a very good ball player and was a genius pass selector and the other was a quiet but well behaved lad, they signed the well behaved lad and binned the other two off.

I'd like to judge Lam after a few weeks of seeing the same 17 (who are all still available at the end) and if possible close to our best 17. Very hard to see what he has brought to the table from the sides we have had out, but the Catalans win was one of the best attacking displays in years if that is any indication and the first half against Cas we were solid in attack until Sammut went off.

He arguably had a worse team to pick from the season before last and we came 6th.

That is what I was referring to. I thought it was interesting jonh was suggesting a player clear out and was wondering why.

Wigan seem to have lost around 1/3 of its core support and moreover the course if SW tenure...it's a trend seemingly continuing under Lam....
It makes blaming SW inconclusive...
Is the fault pitch and coach related or does it go higher to Rads and IL, or a combination?

Something is seriously wrong at Wigan...and IL would be reluctant to blame himself.

The Clubb situation sums up the problem Lam faces. The two props who most would say are our two first choice, Clubb and Flower, have been in and out of the side with injury and even when they play they seem shadows of their former selves. Flower looked far form fit last night. Bullock does well but he's not outstanding, he's in the "good player" list, but the fact he's better than Navarette and TT shows how weak we are in the front row. In the 2nd row we have Greenwood and a.n.other since Faz got injured, such as Isa who is another bang average player and with Lockers a bit part player who is as likely to come on as a prop as anything else our 13 is seemingly the newly promoted Smithies. Lam also has a problem at 9 in that because Powell's only attribute is being 3rd man in for 57 tackles a match he is alternating him with Tommy who can't do the minutes.

I am far from convinced Lam is the man for job myself but what Lam is supposed to do with such a naff pack I am not sure.

Similar squad to last year minus MM, Gelling and FPN

Flower looked in pain every time he stood up last night.

Bullock has done so well in such a short space of time. He's been put in an unfair position - should have been playing a supporting role and is now our main prop.

I thought Navarette did OK, don't remember seeing too much of Tautai.

Mate, you're watching a different game to me. Our attack is on par with Wane's team at best. We have scored some scintillating tries, but not at a higher frequency than under Wane.

Everything else is worse.

I understand Lam has been hamstrung by a lack of investment, but the prospect of watching a side coached by this balloon for 2 more years, is not wetting the appetite.

We have been far better to watch in attack this season than in any season under Waney, despite the obvious injury situation. Go back to the injury ravaged seasons of 2 & 3 years ago (such as when Wakey beat us 62-0) because otherwise you’re comparing apples with oranges.
Our attack against Catalan and in the 1st half versus Cas was some of the best rugby I’ve seen from Wigan for a very long time. Defensively we’ve been poor but we have now conceded just 1 try (from a kick) in the last two games.

Lam has not had a fair crack at it yet and your ‘balloon’ comment typifies that fact. We need to judge him when we’ve at least had some consistency in the squad. If we get some consistency and the rugby is still hit & miss, then I’ll accept it might be a coaching issue.

We won the gf in 2016...

Correct, which is exactly my point. We had a spell where we couldn’t buy a win that year but we turned it around. I’m not saying that’ll happen again but we need to judge Lammy when he’s been able to choose a consistent squad. That is my only pointing this thread really.

I keep hearing it said that the squad isn't much different to the one that won the GF last year. That's all good and well but it's completely irrelevant if you can't play them! Last night only 5 of the starting team was from last year's Grand Final 17. On the bench we had 3 more. That's a total of 8, or in other words, less than half of the players who played in the final. Just to give that further perspective, the situation has at times been even worse than that with one particular match only having 3 of the GF winning team able to take the field!

BRW makes the point that people are currently comparing apples and oranges and I have to say that is the most accurate comment I've read so far on this thread. Whether Lam can turn it round (as Wane had to in previous seasons) is the true test. I'm not convinced we have the squad available even when fully fit. However, I do know that the Easter period is not the time to be judging this. I've seen enough flat games over this period from championship winning teams to know that with absolute certainty.

Lam doesn’t have the experience or the players to turn this season around, the only thing left to play for is the Challenge Cup and the only way we would do well in that is if we got a new coach ASAP and signed a couple of forwards.

The reality is that we are not going to sign any new players mid season unless someone does something stupid a al Joel.

Lam was always on a hiding to nothing this year. He has a remit to change to a more expansive style of play but doesn’t have the playing personnel to do so.

I don’t think anyone would disagree we need investment in the pack, until we do so then the only style of play that will suit us is the Shayne Wane one.

I’ve seen plenty of signs that Lam is attempting to be more expansive however we don’t have the dominant pack to implement that change properly. I hope Lam signs for a further 2 years, one he has had a chance to bring in a few players who will complement what he is trying to do then I will judge him but that won’t be this season.