The worst thing about that was the rest of the team just standing and watching instead of giving Marshall some help.

First choice winger due to injuries to others reinforces my point which was the fact that someone at the very start of his career has already accomplished something extraordinary. Not really sure how you feel that contradicts it but whatever.

There's nothing skewed about asking for the markers by which you make the claim that Makinson is 'head and shoulders' above Davies. Last time I checked they didn't skew statistics in order to support one club or another. Yet again you fail to provide them. We're definitely starting to get a pattern here.

At least you recognize it as hyperbole. That's progress I guess. Maybe your next step it to recognize using it doesn't make it true.

Finally : "Head and shoulders" my ! Unless you care to prove otherwise of course...

He is similar to Budgie in that way. Both have time on the ball to take options while running at pace, nether are "head down run until tackled" types of player. It's a pleasure to watch.



The best taker of a high ball I have ever seen is Steve Hampson and he was a comparative midget. Players just gave up trying to kick to him. It's not impossible for smaller players to develop a technique to jump in a way to offset a height disadvantage.

I could look through stats and figures and achievements re Davies and Makinson, but the last time I played your game highlighting facts/figures re Lockers and Bateman you emailed me privately asking me to stop as it was becoming a two man thread after justifying all my points. (life is far too short to get back into that one!) I think you'll find that's more of a pattern than me failing to support my points.
Last time I also pointed out that stats only provided information of very definable measures, i.e meters made etc, it's so baffling that someone would hang their hat on stats when there's far more complexities to a game, players performance, I'm assuming you do actually watch games and not just read the stats after the fact? If you really want this discussion, please feel free to mention it on the Saints board, I'm sure one or two of their fans would be happy to keep you entertained .

I actually regret going into the ins and outs of the Bateman/Lockers debate. I pointed out how stats only provided a short sighted overview, yet I still played your game justifying and supporting all my points. But furthermore because it seemed I was against Lockers, which couldn't be further from the truth; for me, he's the best player we have.

PS Hyberbole? "someone at the very start of his career has already accomplished something extraordinary" -Phuzzy on Tom Davies, June 2018.

I was gobsmacked with G Williams, he's better than that. He's not been a shadow of himself this season has he?

I agree. Felt sorry the lad. Can never question his effort or desire.

Is pretty good for it though FMC.
He looks to make the heavy yards and have sweet distribution too. It's makes me smile watching his dummy half passing he makes on occasions.

The point about teammates not helping Marshall out is a fair one; thinking back, it seemed to go on for ages. It was he who chased back in a desperate effort the last time we were humiliated by an after-the-hooter try, as I recall.

Size alone is not enough. My own clubs pack (Wakefield) is frankly massive yet there is no evidence so far this seaon that they could dominate anybody.

For whatever reason the attitude is all wrong at the moment with the backs shouldering far to much of the work.

We have pace in abundance but we simply can’t use it because the pack isn’t winning the battle up front.

Ditto mobility, potentially we have that in spades but that’s not happening either.

Packs win games and big and mobile as our pack is on paper on grass it’s totally lacklustre.

If you play it hard down the middle against us you could easily win because we are soft in sad to say.

Knowing our luck we will buy some huge props in the season they change the substitution rule. What the sports needs is more Grahams and Gansons, tough players who play consistently well season after season and are happy to stay at a club for a long period, but they are a rare breed.

If you mean 'right now' as in 2018 fair enough, but Wire have been trying for ten years (with mixed success) to bring players through the ranks. Penny and Riley on the wings, Johnstone at full back, O'Brien and Patton in the halves, lots of forwards. Some of these lads played dozens of first team games but ultimately proved not good enough (or still trying to prove it) for a team with ambition to be right at the top. What we do have currently are Cooper, Currie and probably Livett who have made it through.

It well could be our playing style over the size or mobility of our props. As previously discussed we seem to have some very set tactics at Wigan. Wingers used often on tackles 1 and 2 on exit sets, usually to use speed to evade 'A' defenders and props who are instructed to 'find their front' after contact and have a quick play the ball to catch the defensive line off-guard.

I feel sorry for some of our props under our coaching system, they are made to look like they have no leg drive or fight after first contact.

Could be a style of play issue.