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Quote: Grimmy "Where are we getting one of those from, who will play for peanuts? I agree with you but we have a salary cap and (as far as I'm aware) no big earners off contract. Realistically for next season the answer needs to come from within, whether that is Leuluai, S.Tomkins, Powell or Shorrocks. The only other viable option I can think of would be to try and sell Manfredi or Burgess to free up room, but even so I'm not sure they would be on comparable wages to a good halfback.'"


I don't know what Shorrocks is like, as we've barely seen him due to his unfortunate injury record. But none of the others will do the job for me.

I agree that some kind of jiggery-pokery is needed to get someone in, but we can't keep delivering more of the same.

The world has not ended. Wigan can carry on as they are, and be okay at mid/upper table level, but we've all felt for some time that, in truth, we are on the slide. Last Sunday was just the first time we've had the reality of it rammed into our faces. We are still supposed to be Champions, but the reality is that Cas have been setting the pace all season, and we are way, way off it. A gap that huge won't be bridged by simply swapping around the mediocre talents we already have.

Somehow or other, even if it involves losing current playing staff (by any and whatever means possible), we must get someone in who can replace Lockers in the middle and marshal the team.

Along with a complete shake-up of the coaching staff, I'd argue that this is our most pressing priority.

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: Cruncher "I don't know what Shorrocks is like, as we've barely seen him due to his unfortunate injury record. But none of the others will do the job for me.

I agree that some kind of jiggery-pokery is needed to get someone in, but we can't keep delivering more of the same.

The world has not ended. Wigan can carry on as they are, and be okay at mid/upper table level, but we've all felt for some time that, in truth, we are on the slide. Last Sunday was just the first time we've had the reality of it rammed into our faces. We are still supposed to be Champions, but the reality is that Cas have been setting the pace all season, and we are way, way off it. A gap that huge won't be bridged by simply swapping around the mediocre talents we already have.

Somehow or other, even if it involves losing current playing staff (by any and whatever means possible), we must get someone in who can replace Lockers in the middle and marshal the team.

Along with a complete shake-up of the coaching staff, I'd argue that this is our most pressing priority.'"

But I'm not sure there is that option. Other than one of the wingers the only (presumably) big earners I'd be willing to part with are S.Tomkins, Leuluai, Nu'uausala, McIlorum and J.Tomkins. Who is realistically going to buy any of them off us? All the rest either won't be on that much, are good players, or we don't have cover for. We can't just offload contracted players so easily.

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Quote: Grimmy "But I'm not sure there is that option. Other than one of the wingers the only (presumably) big earners I'd be willing to part with are S.Tomkins, Leuluai, Nu'uausala, McIlorum and J.Tomkins. Who is realistically going to buy any of them off us? All the rest either won't be on that much, are good players, or we don't have cover for. We can't just offload contracted players so easily.'"


I know. I doubt anyone would be prepared to come anywhere close to the kind of wages those players have managed to wangle out of Wigan, let alone offer decent transfer fees to acquire them.

But I feel we're at a crisis point, and the club must at least investigate all possible solutions.

Some kind of new broom is desperately needed.

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[color=#FF0000:3ohiykr5][b:3ohiykr5]Wigan Warriors - 2017 World Club Champions[/b:3ohiykr5][/color:3ohiykr5]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22964.jpg



Quote: Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy "We desperately need an organising half with a top class kicking game - that isn't Sam Tomkins.'"


Spot on. Christ knows who we'd get, though.

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I genuinely believe Todd Carney would be great for us...yes, he may have his demons, but with a full pre-season, get him fit, get him clicking with GW and give him the confidence and support he could easily re-establish himself as one of the best SH's! Also sorts our kicking problem.

Not sure if Salford see him as a full-time replacement for Dobson though

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Quote: RichieS "I genuinely believe Todd Carney would be great for us...yes, he may have his demons, but with a full pre-season, get him fit, get him clicking with GW and give him the confidence and support he could easily re-establish himself as one of the best SH's! Also sorts our kicking problem.

Not sure if Salford see him as a full-time replacement for Dobson though'"

I don't get the Todd Carney thing. When I've seen him he is absolutely useless.
Maybe there are hidden talents there but cant see IL risking a move for a player who as you say has his demons.
Not a half but if I could sign anyone in SL at the moment it would be McShane. One of the few rugby players left in the competition.
Before we sign any half we need to sort out the forwards. We could have Andy Greg in his pomp but with our present set of "middles" even he would struggle to make any mark on a game.
I know I rabbit on about it but without a decent pack there is absolutely no point in my opinion of signing a top half. Unless the pack are playing to instructions there isn't one prop in our squad who I actually rate. I don't think we will see any of our "middles" ripping it up in the forthcoming World Cup.

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Quote: Grimmy "Where are we getting one of those from, who will play for peanuts? I agree with you but we have a salary cap and (as far as I'm aware) no big earners off contract. Realistically for next season the answer needs to come from within, whether that is Leuluai, S.Tomkins, Powell or Shorrocks. The only other viable option I can think of would be to try and sell Manfredi or Burgess to free up room, but even so I'm not sure they would be on comparable wages to a good halfback.'"


There's an extra £50k on the salary cap next year as the increases come through. £50k is peanuts for a top half though and is probably already being planned to be used to pay some young players more.

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"Wigan Athletic - No known famous fans. The town (of Wigan) apparently goes into hibernation when the Rugby League season ends!" Daily Mail Online feature, July 2009 ------------------------------------------------------------- They will not force us, They will stop degrading us, They will not control us, WE WILL BE VICTORIOUS! ............ Wigan RLFC - The Uprising! ----------------------------------------------------------- Wigan footballer Mohamed Diame described the home of mint balls and pies as 'cr**py'. But Tomkins boomed: "I don't want to know what he thinks. I don't even know his name. He only plays for Latics.":16522.jpg



Quote: Guerrier "Spot on. Christ knows who we'd get, though.'"


I'd go for Joe Mellor.

Excellent organisational skills, good kicking game & showing very impressive leadership skills at Widnes.

He was really unlucky with injuries at Wigan as a youngster, otherwise could have been our current 7. I know that he is under contract until 2019 but I'd hate to see him being the next Sean Long and going to Stains!
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: Wigg'n "There's an extra £50k on the salary cap next year as the increases come through. £50k is peanuts for a top half though and is probably already being planned to be used to pay some young players more.'"

Yeah if you divide out the salary cap then the average player in the 25 highest earners is on £73k, so you would assume £50k would get us a reserve halfback rather than a starter. As you say, much of it will probably get swallowed in contract re-negotiations.

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If Lockers is to go again in 2018 then we need to bring in his replacement now.
Who we'd get i s another matter but I wouldn't like to see him depart and just carry on without him.
This is going to be some bit of recruitment to replace Lockers, if it can be done!

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[b:1wlcmlhe][color=#800000:1wlcmlhe]WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024 SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018 & 2023 CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024 LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020, 2023 & 2024 ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 & 2024 WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018 BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2024 CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012 [/color:1wlcmlhe][/b:1wlcmlhe]:



Quote: Wigg'n "There's an extra £50k on the salary cap next year as the increases come through. £50k is peanuts for a top half though and is probably already being planned to be used to pay some young players more.'"



£50k plus Lewis Tierney wages perhaps? Maybe more if Tommy takes his coaching role sooner?

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Quote: Grimmy "Where are we getting one of those from, who will play for peanuts? I agree with you but we have a salary cap and (as far as I'm aware) no big earners off contract. Realistically for next season the answer needs to come from within, whether that is Leuluai, S.Tomkins, Powell or Shorrocks. The only other viable option I can think of would be to try and sell Manfredi or Burgess to free up room, but even so I'm not sure they would be on comparable wages to a good halfback.'"


Things change which may give us some wriggle room on the cap - we let Smith go last season while under contract and if the club are doing their job this off-season they'll be trying to offload a number of players for free to freshen up elements of the team or looking to move Leuluai or J Tomkins onto their non-playing jobs early.

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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf] [quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]:



Quote: Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy "Things change which may give us some wriggle room on the cap - we let Smith go last season while under contract and if the club are doing their job this off-season they'll be trying to offload a number of players for free to freshen up elements of the team or looking to move Leuluai or J Tomkins onto their non-playing jobs early.'"

I hope you're right, I couldn't believe they were willing to sign Smith. I just can't see why other clubs would want to pay the wages of the players we are willing to offload at the moment, or why Leuluai or J.Tomkins would be willing to take early retirement. Of the top earners I reckon:

Could maybe offload:
Manfredi or Burgess - Probably the most viable option, as they are both very good wingers who other teams would want, and we have Davies, who looks ready to be first choice.
Nu'uausala - MAYBE a chance that an NRL club would take him as squad player, given that they have a much larger cap, so can take a punt or two. Hopefully the homesick stories are accurate
McIlorum - Can't see Wane being too happy to lose his lovechild, but this would be a good move to be honest. Can maybe see some mid-bottom end SL clubs being interested given his CV.

Don't think other clubs would pay their wages/the player would be willing to leave a good contract:
S.Tomkins - Marquee money, seriously doubt any club would take him as their marquee player now.
Leuluai and J.Tomkins - Signed when their stock was much higher than it is now, so I suspect they have quite cushy contracts which other clubs wouldn't be willing/able to match. Can't see why they would go voluntarily.

Would be a bad move for us to get rid of:
Gelling, Gildart, Williams, Flower, Bateman, Farrell and Lockers - Very good players in positions we don't really have much cover in

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Quote: Cruncher "I'd hope we'd be a bit more ambitious than looking to bring in either Radford or Chester, top blokes though they both are.

I take your point, but to me, Cas have done this season what Wigan did in 86/87 - raised the standard of the game to a totally new level. I don't want us to be like Saints, whose answer to Graham Lowe was to employ Alex Murphy. I feel we need to see dramatic changes in our playing and coaching staff in order to try and step up to this new mark.'"


True enough. It's a bit of a dilemma though. If like me you think Wane is the main problem do you stick with him another year because the only coaches you could tempt here are the likes of Chester?

I think crowds and season ticket sales will plummet if there are not some big changes made. We might make the top 8 next year without a repeat of the early season injury crisis but if it is off the back of the boring rubbish served up this season (and last) I can't say it appeals very much.

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Quote: DaveO "True enough. It's a bit of a dilemma though. If like me you think Wane is the main problem do you stick with him another year because the only coaches you could tempt here are the likes of Chester?

I think crowds and season ticket sales will plummet if there are not some big changes made. We might make the top 8 next year without a repeat of the early season injury crisis but if it is off the back of the boring rubbish served up this season (and last) I can't say it appeals very much.'"


I just don't know.

I'm not sure what stage we're at with contracts. I suppose there is still time this year for SW to do something remarkable again, but I seriously doubt anything of the sort will happen.

I can only say that if we get a sniff of a quality coach from the NRL, even if it's another well-regarded assistant (as Madge was), but we have to wait another year, it might be worth hanging on to what we've got until the time is right. Though even that might not be possible. SW himself might step down if he thought he wasn't part of a long-term plan, and that could leave us with a stopgap coach, which could be utterly disastrous.

This is all conjecture, of course. In reality, it's impossible to imagine us tracking down and luring a top class Aussie coach in the time remaining between now and next season. They'd surely need at least a year just to put their personal stuff in order.

But I maintain that we need to do something drastic. The top of the tree is suddenly far, far above us, and I can't think of anyone in the immediate vicinity who's likely to get us up there.

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