Sean was in absolutely outstanding form prior to his injury last season.

Whilst Dave O has been unfairly attacked in recent days, suggesting Lockers is playing more creatively because he is no longer captain is just untenable really. Its disappointing to see Lockers knocker sentiment still surfacing on this board and disappointing that such an intelligent poster as Dave O should be indulging in this very unfair and incorrect criticism of one of the finest players to play for this club in the modern era (who, were in not for his misfortune in following in the footsteps of Hanley and Farrell, two of the greatest players and captains in RL history, would already be hailed as one of the greatest to ever play for the club).

If Lockers is playing any more creatively this season than last its surely because the burden is being shared out more evenly than previously amongst the forwards - Lockers has always given 100% for the club and has often picked up the slack when less committed players have failed to put the effort in. Not because he is no longer captain!!

I think the multiple captains experiment is working; it doesn't mean though that Lockers is a rubbish captain (he is after all still going to be captaining the team at various points this season!!!!!!) or plays better if he isn't captain. Are the knockers suggesting that Lockers will play worse when he is captain this season? Its unbelievable that Wigan fans will still find ways to have a pop at Lockers. I'm sorry Dave but you need to retract this comment.

Lockers is the best LF in the country, if he isn't the best forward then I'd like to know who is, because they must be having an incredible season to be better than Lockers on his current form, he is so consistent it is untrue.

Sean is Wigan through and through. He understands what the cherry and white means. He is exactly the sort of player that MM and SW want in the side. Wigan fans should be proud to have him in their team and should support him rather than trying to find ways to undermine him.

If he continues in his current form and can avoid injury he will be a very strong contender indeed for the MoS.

beltin post that is

If you look back over the posts I have made about Lockers and the captaincy over the years since Millward appointed him to the post you will see I said right from the beginning I thought the responsibility would not be good for his game. I have posted in the past I thought his game would improve without the captaincy. It may be a factor, it may not but being captain certainly affects players. I don't see this as some sort of silly suggestion. It could very well be a factor IMO. Alas the response to my suggestion was as OTT as some others elsewhere but it's getting to be par for course of offering a different opinion at the moment.



How is suggesting him not having the captaincy being a reason his game has improved considered so impossible?



I'm not undermining him I am just offering an opinion as to why his game has improved. I think it's likely to be down tot he new coach and all he brings to the table and one of those things is him taking the captaincy off Lockers as sole captain. IMHO of course.

Dave

I think its a fair point to say that Lockers creative game has improved as if someone has taken the shackles off. Whether his game was being limited by his role as captain or by the role he was being given by Nobby who knows, but either could be true and I can't really see any issue in suggesting them on a public forum. I don't for one second think that Lockers would be offended by hearing reasons why his game has improved, I think he'll be pleased that it has. Personally judging from the comments by Amos Roberts about how his role has changed for the better I'd say that having a new coach has helped more than losing the captaincy but as any scientist will know its impossible to do a fair test whilst changing two variables

Because a lot of people don't think he has significantly improved, they know he's been that good and shown it in many ways, for the past 2/3 seasons?

He made 11 assists last season, so far this season he has made 7, his missed tackles, errors and penalties have also reduced. His role has clearly changed but whether he has improved or not is clearly down to personal opinion. Saying someone has improved does not necessarily have to be a criticism of how they were previously playing.

Well I think he's improved and I don't think I am the only one. Several of our players have improved to varying degrees some more than others. He is IMO just one of them. Lockers is IMO playing very differently on attack and has tried more things so far this season than he has done in the last three seasons.

Dave

The reason people sometimes respond badly to your posts is because you use every opportunity to try to reinforce your personal hobby horse. O'Loughlin's form was outstanding last season whilst he was capatain. It has remained so, or arguably been even better this, again, whether he has been captain or not. Other players have improved and your reason is almost exclusively the change in coaching. O'Loughlin improves and, according to you, it's because he's had the captaincy taken off him (which in any case he hasn't and, in addition, he has played as Captain twice already this season with no adverse affect on his game). Now I know you're a smart guy Dave. You must see that you can't argue to convenience without people picking up on it! It's like saying "They've changed the pie suppliers at the DW this season and the team suddenly starts playing well, therefore that's obviously the reason!" Leave your opinions open to criticism and they'll be criticised. Now the fact is, having shared responsiblility may be having some affect on his game. However, evidence suggests that it's a relatively minor one, if at all. The real reason is more likely to be exactly the same one as you have given for the improvements in other players, i'e' a better coaching set up and a team playing with more clearly defined game plans and increased team spirit!

See post above.

Dave, no one is arguing that the team is playing better and as both a cause and consequence the individuals in it. It's the reasons you give in O'Loughlin's case that is the sticking point. I notice you haven't correlated it to Micky Higham leaving.....

Well I think he's playing just as well as he always has done in the past 2/3 seasons & I don't think I'm the only one either.

I said he was the best 13 in the league 3 years ago, he has been the best 13 in the league for the past 3 years and he still is now.

I believe, that come the end of the season, the stats will show that the best just got better.

So is Pat Richards playing Better? Etc Etc

O'Loughlin Had to do a job behind a team that struggled at various times over the past 3 or so seasons.
NEVER did his performances drop below Very Good in my book and a lot of the time he was having to do this whilst covering other players backsdes etc as well.
This often meant he was putting in 40+ tackles as well as helping to run the show.

Using stats like that is a bit like Saints fans using the argument that Jon Wilkin has "X" amount of medals and Lockers having "0" medals so he must be the better player, Or 18 months ago the Saints fans telling us that their super dooper kids were better than ours (They weren't they were just getting an easier ride in the 1st team because their 1st team was better) when those who watched and studied the youngsters Knew that Joel Tomkins was/is a far better player than Paul Clough for example.

Everyones "Stats" will improve generally if the team continues to play well and dominate, that doesn't mean that every individual is playing better, it's often just the case that because the "Team" is playing better, certain individuals aren't having to do as much work in other areas, getting more possession as they dominate more in the right areas of the field etc etc.

End of the day about 99% of people on here realise how good O'Loughlin is, about 90% always Knew how good O'Loughlin is/was.
What we don't need is someone telling us it's because he lost the captaincy to try & prove a point that "I was right" all along about the Captaincy issue as they always do, especially with tenious links.

No Management team and Lockers as Captain ala last 3 seasons and pound to a pinch of Doo Dah and his stats would be exactly the same IMO.

I think his game has improved to be honest, although again i think MM can take credit for this rather than SOL. I feel the ability has always been there going forward, but like so many of our players they were shackled under Noble. In my opinion he has been the best 13 in the league for some time, but being used as an extra creative outlet and being allowed to show his ability has taken him to the next level.

Its a phrase that is banded about too often but I feel World Class sums him up. I hope he remains fit enough to prove it again come the 4 nations.

I've already said he was the best but rightly or wrongly a player who's stats such as assists improve or whatever will be described as improving in certain peoples eyes. On the "I was right" part that you're clearly referring to Dave on, people are using Amos Roberts performances this year to justify what they have previously said about him ie "I was right". But that's not Dave so its ok. Some people think he's improved, some don't, the people who think he's improved are split as to whether its all down to the coach, all down to losing his captaincy or a bit of both, they're all different opinions. Dave is giving his, what's the problem?

If the team improves (Mainly down to coaching etc) then surely Lockers will have more time/chances etc to use those techniques & Skills as we are dominating field position etc & in we are more often in better areas on the field to benefit from these attributes and on more occasions over the course of a game?

Tenious link I know, but if Gerrard isn't playing as well at Liverpool this year as previous years is that down to him not being World class anymore or the fact that Liverpool as a team (Maybe Benitex isn't inspiring them etc to continue with the tenious links theme ) are playing worse meaning Gerrard has to do more work in other areas so his attacking stats don't look as good as previous years?
I know which one I think it is!

I'm not sure that Noble "Shackled" O'loughlin, I just don't think his team were playing well enough to get the best out of his attributes particularly in attack because of the extra work they/he had to do in defensive situations.

The one atatement I will COMPLETELY AGREE with you on is the "World Class" bit.

It's a shame Farrell etc couldn't stay with the club a couple more seasons and the club have a smoother transition from one era to another at the time O'Loghlin was making his way into the Back 3 because his form in 2004 was fantastic although at the time he was only around 21/22 years of age!
The injury early 2005 set him back and I don't think we started to see him re-emerge until 2007. Since then he has been the best 13 in the league by some distance for me and the improved set up at Wigan, coaching etc, are improving the team as a whole and this makes it easier for him to "Look Good", If the previous seasons teams had played this well, he would have been looked upon as Playing equally well in those seasons as well IMO.