I'd say Lomax is more of a runner than Deacon ever was, closer to Long than Deacon. Gaskell has the potential to be a class act. He has pace, good hands a good kicking game and vision. He has a big frame and I think as he develops physically he will pose more of a threat to the line as a runner ala Pryce.

I know a few on this board are bashing Deacon but at times Saints have missed a Deacon like player with experience to get us round the park and a mature kicking game, I do wonder though if Deacon and Finch are a bit too similar

Lomax had a great game easily MOM IMHO followed closely by Roby who is best hooker in SL. They were playing behind a pack that had won the forward battle though with Graham and Puletua leading the way. Our pack need to step back up in the next two games to get the backs on the front foot.

Tomkins hardly goes missing when Wigan get beaten, if anything his game suffers due to him trying to take too much on himself, he has real desire to do well for the club and I can't say I have ever seen him hold back when Wigan are losing.

You not watching on Sunday?

In tight 50:50 games he has come up with something special (Hudds home last year, Wire QF, Hull away this season come to mind) but in games where we are under the cosh and 2nd best in every department this hasn't been the case. Not saying he isn't trying or doesn't have the desire to, just at the moment he needs quality service from the players inside him to come up with something special and he cant do it all on his own. Like I say it's only a minor criticism really. I'd say the only 2 players we've had at Wigan in the last decade who have been able to take the game by the scruff of the neck and almost look like they're playing teams on their own are Andy Farrell and Trent Barrett, 2 world class players.

I still think Sam is the best player in the league and the best British player we've had for some time.

I was watching thanks! But your arguments not that he went missing is it? You expect one player to win the game on their own.

Not win the game on his own, no. But produce some magic to lift the team, make a break, chip over the defence and regather, something like that. He wasn't able to do this because the forwards got battered and the pivots were shut down.

What I'm saying is maybe after a couple more years at fullback he'll be able to go, "right this game is mine" and lift the side from what seems like certain defeat, I believe he will be good enough. We saw in the WCC he wasn't able to produce his best and we've seen it for England against the Aussies and Kiwis.

Simply saying there's nothing wrong with his defence doesn't make it so. The first tackle he made where he pulled makinson into touch...it was touch and go around the head. If he hadn't gone as high as that, he would not have made the tackle. The first Wellens try: with better positioning and more size he should have been able to tackle Wellens and bring him down before the line but his size counts against him...lets not forget that is wellens is slower than your nan and yet Tomkiins still couldn't get close enough for an effective tackle.

Regarding England, Tomkins at fullback will simply be ignored by the australians and Kiwis when they are attacking as they will run over him should he be in the right position...undoubtedly, they will think differently about him when we are in possession. He is a fantastic prospect at half or stand off, so lets play him there.

Also think its unfair to expect him to bail you out each time it gets tough. Thought he tried lots of things on Sunday (kick over for free kick, trying to score himself, running well with the ball) and perhaps others should follow his example. He worked hard despite a knock to his shoulder just before half time that clearly affected him as he was less interested in the second half. In fact, he seems to take on too much: the terrific try saving tackle from Lomax should not have been an option had tomkins not tried to stretch out...if you look where he landed, the ball would have been easily grounded if he had stuck it under his ribs and just dived over.

Back to thread, Lomax was sensational in both attack and defence

I think this is where the game was won, in the half backs. They were quicker in getting the ball away and more alert in exploiting any gaps down the middle. Deacon had one of the worse games I,ve seen him play this season.

Deacs did have a poor game, he's been playing very well consistently this season (more so than last when he was injured for parts of it).

I've watched almost every game this year and have seen Sam produce some excellent one on one cover tackles, on forwards and backs. Wellens' try was nothing to do with Sam's positioning but a shocking missed tackle from Hansen and Deacon, Tomkins was pushing out wide and had to quickly step off his left foot and Wellens was diving over by the time he reached him. The fullback has to have confidence in the defence, he cant just loiter behind every contact in case there is a bust tackle.

I hope the aussies and kiwis do take that attitude to him tbh!

In the same way saying Sam is a good defender doesnt make it so, neither does making a list of what qualities a fullback should possess and saying Sam doesnt have them! I think this is where a lot of people's criticisms of him come from. Going they should take a high ball, he's not good at that...cover tackling, no...etc.

Everyone is blaming the halves, I saw very little support overall. Dummy runners were few and far between and options were limited, at times I felt like I was watching Wigan under Noble.

Hopefully it was just one of those games and we get back to it this week.

I actually - VERY - sarcastically shouted bring back Noble at one point as we played yet another drive up the middle in that first half.
It really was as poor as those days in attack