Dave, he could have signed with Leeds and, by all accounts, on more money! The way you ignore pertinent facts to suit your agenda really doesn't do you any justice. Of course players will do things that are 'in their interest' but that phrase covers a whole gamut of factors, some of which are in IL's control, some of which are not. All IL can do is make sure he controls the ones he can in Wigan's best interest That is EXACTLY what he has done in both these instances (and, in all likelihood in Sam's case too!) What is it in you that only looks to find the negative in almost every given situation? I can't quite fathom what motivates you. You are simply ignoring what has ACTUALLY happened here in favour of supposition and hypothesis just to meet some negative spin that you seem insistent on promoting. IL promised that, if handled correctly, players would return to the club. He has been fully vindicated. You are ON RECORD as saying you thought IL's words amounted to nothing more than empty promises and that we were unlikely ever to see the likes of Mossop back at our club. Frankly you can spin it all you like but it doesn't change the fact that IL has been proven right in his assertions whilst you have been proven wrong.

One thing is near enough certain. If IL had followed Dave O's advice and got 'tough' with these lads, insisting they serve out their full contracts before he would even contemplate letting them leave, it would have significantly reduced the chances of them returning to Wigan later. So in that respect at least, IL was right and DO was wrong.

DaveO - yes you're right, IL didn't have a master plan for Mossop to hurt his shoulder and come back after a year. But, that the only bit you're right about.

He created the right environment and conditions for players to want to come back when they felt ready or inclined to. He probably had a reasonable feeling that some of these players will give it a ty and at some point they will want to come home. And if they do, they will look to Wigan first.

Is that really so difficult to understand and accept?

back to Mossop and not IL. Mossop was once the 1st choice senior prop before he had his head turned and injuries lets hope he gets back to that form quickly.

going to be really interesting to see how our pack performs next year and who's 1st choice and who's not, Bateman got rested a lot at the back end of last season so i am assuming this season he will be looking for more game time. i get a feeling larne patrick might be in the back row a lot as well.

Nail, head, hit...

Re Mossop.. Injury hit player wants to leave?.. Get rid, leaving door open.. Great business move in my eyes.

Who knows Dave? Maybe it is a case in each instance of IL being lucky rather than good (to murder a famous phrase). However, it does seem to be true that these prodigals aren't even considering any other club in SL and at least some of that has to be to IL's credit surely?

I do accept your point that they have returned because it suits them and not to grant IL or any of us any favours. Given that their sojourns have ended in their return as IL predicted (I didn't believe a word of it at the time) I am wiling to give IL at least some of the credit here.

I think Bateman is going to have a massive 2015. With a full Wigan pre-season and a year's experience of our systems under his belt, he could be the one to watch across the whole of Super League next season. Fingers crossed!

Yeh I hope SW finds a decent way to rotate Farrell, Tomkins and Bateman within a game. All 3 like playing long minutes and I felt Bateman was a bit underused towards the back end of this season once Joel began starting games and John was playing off the bench.

Bateman in time will be our best second row IMO. He's just got that attitude that sets players apart from others.

I just hope him not playing many minutes near the end of the year was to offer him a rest rather then it being Wane seeing him as our third choice second row.

Thought at one point last season Bateman was played at 13 and Waney said he saw a future for him there. Can't remember the precise wording but I remember an inference that Bateman may well replace Lockers when the time comes.

He looks the obvious choice at the moment.

He along with Ben Currie are my big hopes to add some depth and quality to the England backrow. I think a little too much was made of how weak we were there in the Four Nations because it's not a vintage time for the Kiwi's or Aussie's in that department either but we can improve for sure.

TBF we have just come out the other side of a good period for 2nd rows. Ellis, Hock, Burgess, Lockers, Westwood and Sinfield were all quality players.

That's British RL for you. One moment you have an abundance in one position and then you don't.

Well thanks for the reasoned response. I think people are just being a bit naive about it and that IL is milking it as if he were a politician.

An argument when players leave that is often put forward is that this is a short career and sentiment doesn't come into it. That is, while we as fans have a loyalty to the club players have a loyalty to their career first and foremost. It's going to work that way if any of them come back here. When a player leaves all IL can do is keep his fingers crossed if they come back to the UK the offer he puts on the table is good enough regardless of what he said about any possible future return.

It also helps Wigan are a top side which is kind of stating the obvious but you would not expect any of the Burgess bros to return to Bradford right now would you?

DaveO, it's the only way we can make things work at this time... We just can't compete financially with the other code, or the NRL... Smell the coffee for goodness sake.

Some people would argue this is down to IL as well. They certainly weren't a top side before he took over.